Money in Star Trek.

[ray gower]

Originally posted by Dave


But, you may have a point, in that I think (could be wrong) that the invention of Warp drive may be a condition of Federation membership, and I think that the technological level that allows Warp drive also assumes replicators and transporters etc.

Voyager seems to meet a lot of people with Warp technology, all without replicators.

However the discussion about money is endemic of a much greater malaise in current StarTrek philosophy. StarFleet crews are not human in sense of the term applied by psychologists today.

They don't seem to suffer any of the little failings that make us what we are. No ambition, greed, jealousy, temper or desire. To be honest as far as nature goes they are clones!

Nor do they seem to lack the fundamental requirements for human contentment:- Safety, nutrition and value i.e. somewhere to live, something to eat, something to do. It is our lack of these three that force us to strive for improvement.
As there is no challenge, why the hell are they swanning about the Universe?

Somewhere in between now and Voyager either:
a/ They are brainwashed at Academy.
Or
b/ There has been major genetic surgery of the human gene stock.
Natural selection to achieve it is not possible in such a short period, according to a learned friend who is hot on genetics.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by ray gower
StarFleet crews are not human in sense of the term applied by psychologists today.

They don't seem to suffer any of the little failings that make us what we are. No ambition, greed, jealousy, temper or desire... <snip> ...Natural selection to achieve it is not possible in such a short period, according to a learned friend who is hot on genetics.

You are right there. There is very little difference genetically between Modern Man and a Caveman. We believe ourselves to be so advanced, but we are still just as ambitious, greedy, etc. All we have is our Technology. This will not change in a few 100 years.

But Star Trek is an ideal. It shows what we could be, or what Gene Roddenberry thought we could be. It is a kind of Utopia. People who don't like Star Trek usually see this as a bigger problem that it is IMHO. Maybe the experience of a Third World War with Nuclear Weapons finally changed attitudes. Maybe they did experiment with genetic engineering and eugenics.

The many Dystopian views of the future science fiction gives us can become quite depressing.

 

[ray gower]

You are right in that StarTrek is an ideal, but despite the corniness of the stories themselves, TOS actually managed to have people with real emotion behind them.

It is a feature that is largely lacking in the more recent renditions.

I therefore await the Enterprise with some trepidation: Will it combine Kirk, Spock and Bones with non-wobbling scenery and quality effects, or will they be standard Paramount cut outs?

 

[Neo]

Who knows ray ??????? i for one hope it is a hit...

 

[little star]

Originally posted by ray gower


However the discussion about money is endemic of a much greater malaise in current StarTrek philosophy. StarFleet crews are not human in sense of the term applied by psychologists today.

They don't seem to suffer any of the little failings that make us what we are. No ambition, greed, jealousy, temper or desire. To be honest as far as nature goes they are clones.
Nor do they seem to lack the fundamental requirements for human contentment:- Safety, nutrition and value i.e. somewhere to live, something to eat, something to do. It is our lack of these three that force us to strive for improvement.
As there is no challenge, why the hell are they swanning about the Universe?

Well, in Gene Roddenberry's original vision of the future, people chose to go out into space for exploration's sake, kind of a curiosity about the universe in which they lived---in contrast to traveling the galaxy to look for raw materials/alien cultures to exploit, or to escape a dying, used-up planet.

So some people could disagree with you, arguing the point that only when life's basic needs are already met are we free to pursue 'loftier goals'.

Also, I think some of the later ST series tried to introduce more realistic 'flaws', although they tended to use non-Starfleet characters to do so. I mean, a lot of people complained about the 'darkness' of DS9----they said it had gotten too far away from Roddenberry's original positive, hopeful view of the future. The series dealt with a Cardassian Occupation, the Bajorans' resentment, an ongoing war, a Trill whose symbiont had a murderer as a previous host, a religious leader (Kai Winn) who was ambitious and self-serving, a mass murderer (Gul Dukat), an arrogant (at least to begin with) doctor, a profit-hungry Ferengi (Quark) etc. etc.

And VOY introduced crewmembers who did not live up to Starfleet standards (Tom Paris, the Maquis, including B'elanna with her fiery temper, an ex-Borg, etc.).


little star :star:

 

[ray gower]

Originally posted by little star


And VOY introduced crewmembers who did not live up to Starfleet standards (Tom Paris, the Maquis, including B'elanna with her fiery temper, an ex-Borg, etc.).


little star :star:

And didn't they adapt well?

 

[Dave]

To paraphrase Quark: that must have been those sickly sweet insidious Federation values creeping up on them.

 

[Neo]

oooooooo thats sounds so sickly.......

 

[little star]

heehee

Originally posted by Dave
To paraphrase Quark: that must have been those sickly sweet insidious Federation values creeping up on them.

LOL!


nothing wrong with trying to have high ideals

 

[Highlander II]

this is an interesting thread --

and i really did have something i was going to post and add to the discussion - but it has completely slipped my mind --- i have NO idea what i was gonna say ---

however, if i remember, i'll be back!

oh -i do remember that i was gonna say i was confused by the whole money thing too --- esp on DS9 where someone tells Jake that they don't take Federation credits, only latiunum (this may have been in the book and not the show - can't remember) --

 

[Neo]

Can u remember which episode it was

 

[Highlander II]

it was the pilot ep -- and, it might have been in the book that was written based on the script ---- not sure ----- (haven't seen the pilot ep in years!)

 

[Dave]

When DS9 began they made a big deal of it being on the 'edge of the final frontier'. If that quote was in the pilot that would make sense, because not accepting Federation Credits would make it a more uncivilised place, far from the centre of the Federation. I have two problems with that though:

a) as the series progressed DS9 and Bajor seemed to get progressively nearer to Earth -- the trip seemed quite short in 'Little Green Men', 'Homefront', and 'Past Tense'.

b) just like American Dollars, Federation Credits would be good anywhere, and even if they weren't, what is this 'Gold Pressed Latinum' anyway?

 

[ray gower]

Originally posted by Dave
b) just like American Dollars, Federation Credits would be good anywhere, and even if they weren't, what is this 'Gold Pressed Latinum' anyway?

Not if they are new they won't. Natural caution would make the local currency preferable for ordinary traders and peasants alike.

Are you really looking forward to going on holiday to Spain next year, your pockets full of new-fangled Euro's instead of Paesata's and Cookes travellers cheques, when you know that the two prices on the label don't match with official conversion rates?

Personally (being old) I am still known to convert prices into LSD and I can and do freely buy a pint in my local for 37/9. The Landlord is older than me and refused to go metric, so our old (and much frayed) 10/- note is still passed religiously between us.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by ray gower
Not if they are new they won't. Natural caution would make the local currency preferable for ordinary traders and peasants alike.

If they were new this would be so, but they aren't new, or are they?

I assumed that when they got rid of paper money they used these 'credits' instead. And it has been established that paper money went a long time ago so that credits are at least as old as the Federation itself. Those assumptions may be wrong.

What I meant was that all over the world, in Russia, in Africa, even in places that hate the USA, they still accept the dollar because the economy is sound, and the rate of exchange stable, and everyone recognises them.

I wouldn't know a fake Euro from a real one, especially as each country is going to print their own!!

But carrying Euros around is still preferable to suitcases of rare Heavy metals

 

[ray gower]

Dollars have been around for quite some time, but they have only become freely acceptable in the last forty years or so. People have had tme to become 'used' to them.

As I recall the Federation only became involved in Bajor when the Cardassians were encouraged to leave. Therefore Credits are new 'funny' money to the inhabitants.

I think the thing with the Latinum was to bring in a rare element to take the place of Gold as an object of desire. The later being a human weakness.

In a way it is a pity that Latinum appears to be a liquid. At least with gold coins you would gain interest while the coin was in your felt pocket!

 

[Dave]

I take your point about the Federation influence in Bajor being recent.

And Gold, Silver, Platinum etc. are shiny things you can make into atractive jewelry (or electronic circuits). Latinum seems to have absolutely no use at all.

 

[markpud]

dollar accepted everywhere??? Try spending them in England, you'll get laughed all the way to the bureau de change

 

[Dave]

Now you're taking what I said out of context. My analogy was that in some backwater on the edge of the galactic civilisation, Federation Credits would be as acceptable as American Dollars are in a third world bazaar or to Russian mafia gang.

I accept that where there is a strong local currency, and the Federation/American influence is not as strong, this would not happen.

But you can keep carrying around your suitcases of heavy metals if you like. At least you won't need exercise classes to keep fit! But try changing Gold bars at a Bureau de change!!!

 

[markpud]

i'd like to have some gold bars.....