Magnificent Century (Muhteşem Yüzyıl)

Brian Turner said:

That's exactly it. In fact, much of what we just said is exactly what my wife and I were discussing straight after.

I think it's a testament to the series that it can do such a great job with the characters - overall, at least. The trouble with the Isabella plot - IMO - is that it turned characters that we had previously sympathised with, into ones we did not - not least Suleyman himself.

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Yes, it is why I disliked Isabella in part aside from her just irritating me. She wasn't bad per se, but she got there at the expense of other characters and I didn't get why people were singing her praises.

Another thing that is very note-worthy about the show, at the very least in the beginning, are the battle scenes. Like it this episode. At the 3:05 mark. They are very nicely shot without necessarily a cast of 1000 to make it very eye-catching and yet in a way, doesn't shy from dark aspect of it with just enough blood to bring it across that people are dying and not make it overly gore-y. I really like the employed style of filming.

I presume there was simply no budget for the battle scenes, so they opted for a style of presentation I'd expect to see on stage in a theatre - such as in a Shakespeare. But I agree - because of that, they're really effective, and think they translate well to the screen.

Also! Just watched 39 - and, OMG, they still know how to do cliffhangers! A triple one this time - Nigar standing on the balcony, Hatice found the letter in the violin case, and Hurrem just refused to see Suleyman. And that was all after the massive confrontation between Hurrem and Valide with all sorts of repuercussions (Heart! Notebook! Daye!). Which - for anyone reading who has never seen the series, it'll all sound a bit trite. But they are continuing escalations in plot lines that have been developing since the opening.

It's very clever how they play their audience. I was cheering when Hatice found that note. It's time for Pasha to be called to account.

I've been slowly re-watching the show. New job on a 8 to 4 basis has been kind of a time hogger especially with classes in the mix, but I finally reached the episode 25.

Re: Season 1 finale:

Brian Turner said:

Re: Season 1 finale:

Spoiler

It was intense, wasn't it?

I thought it was superb the way that Ibrahim was revealed to be such an incredible villain, after he'd been made to be such a sympathetic character via his love for with Hatice. The transition was, frankly, masterful.

And, indeed, his dealing with Matrakci just showed how aggressive and malicious he could be.

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Brian Turner said:

Spoiler

I found the conflict between Hurrem and Hatice a bit forced - after all, Hurrem saved her baby.

Hurrem's attempt to have Ibrahim also felt somewhat rushed - it seemed to come from nowhere, and disappear just as quickly.

However, the confrontations with Valide and Hurrem were long in coming, and brillient to watch - absolutely made up for Isabella.

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I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.

I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel). Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion. I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.

Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador). And Ibrahim was sexy as hell... So I may well watch another episode or two.

The Judge said:

I watched the first episode last night, and though it was interesting in some respects (my knowledge of the Ottoman empire is limited to Venetian intrigues, the gates of Vienna, and the Battle of Lepanto) for me it was the type of costume drama where they've spent all the money on the costumes, and the script got what was left in petty cash.

I appreciate my judgement could simply arise from culture clash though, since for me the longueurs, continual thousand-yard stares and go-nowhere internal monologues were as wearisome as what I imagine were meant to be the comedic scenes with the cook and the eunuchs (which to my mind just showed humour really doesn't travel). Worst of all for me was the depiction of the slave and harem women, and the characterisation of Alexandra herself who leapt from near-suicidal desperation into gagging-for-it whoredom via stupid acts of screaming pettiness which didn't deserve the name of rebellion. I know she had the dream, but I still found the transformation wholly unconvincing, and if she is meant to be an intelligent woman, gawd help us.

Having said that, it was effortless viewing, and though the CGI was amateurish that's never a deal-breaker for me; the settings were beautiful, the costumes suitably gorgeous, and the glimpses of Ottoman rule interesting (eg the literally kissing of the hem of his garments, the violent manhandling and subjugation of the Venetian ambassador). And Ibrahim was sexy as hell... So I may well watch another episode or two.

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The reason harem and Alexandra in the early episodes seem so hard to believe is because it wasn't really so. Girls brought to the harem were generally much much younger and were raised and educated there for the most part. They were indoctrinated to behave that way and some of them were actually sent there by their families in order to secure them a better living. But before they'd be bough to sultan, they would have to excel in many areas of what was considered education for harem girls and girls were carefully selected before they could as much as cross sultan's path. Many of the girls brought would just become servant girls, apprentices to their medics, or kalfae. Even if some were brought at a latter age, it would probably take quite a while before they met sultan if they ever did. In large part, they changed that depiction of harem in order to be able to introduce immediate threats to Hurrem's position via new women in harem Suleiman could get interested in and indoctrination would be quite hard to sell. And then, they had to make that come to terms with Hurrem's quick rise to power and prominence in the harem. It is really the reason why early Hurrem is unbearable to watch at times. They wanted to make her personal story more tragic, but they had to hurry the transition part because watching Hurrem do mundane harem things as she deals with her personal tragedy wouldn't interest their target audience. I just tend to ignore the early angsty Hurrem.

As for her intelligence, she'll remain petty and pointless for a while. She gets better later on for reasonably decent justifications where she gains mentor-ship, goes through some hardships, and learns to navigate the court. Even early on, there is still some spark of intelligence to her actions and quick uptake, but she's impulsive, petty, and reckless making it all seem like a low form of cunningness.

I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter. Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.

The Judge said:

So I may well watch another episode or two.

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There are times when Magnificent Century demands patience - there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.

However, IMO the patient viewer is richly rewarded.

I agree, episode 1 came across as simply "potentially interesting" to me when I first watched it. But my kids wanted to see what happened with Hurrem vs the harem. The character and plot and development became gripping for us. And some of those cliffhangers later on were astonishing...

The story arcs sometimes flirt with cliche and sometimes drag - other times they are driven, relentless, and intense. Overall, IMO there is some of the best characterisations on TV. If you make it to the end of Season 1 you'll see what I mean (especially regarding Ibrahim).

Whatever you decide though, I'm sincerely glad you at least tried it.

The Judge said:

I guessed that liberties had been taken with the reality of harem life in order to get her before the sultan asap, but that didn't worry me, as I can understand the need to get on with the drama. But the depiction of a society of youngish women as largely a bunch of giggling simpletons annoyed me no end, and it would have been so easy to have made her transition more realistic, even if, as you say, she remained petty and impulsive thereafter. Certainly to my mind her characterisation was the weakest part of the whole drama.

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Well, sadly, considering they would get there very young and would be rather indoctrinated with their education and contact with outer world being rather limited, it wouldn't be very far off from how their behaviour might have been. But later on, you'll be shown many of them as smarter than that and in a wide array of roles. Pay a lot of attention to how Valide Sultan and Daye-hatun instruct them to be, especially when they point out Hurrem's flaws, and you realize that most of them has to act that way to avoid their ire.

They could have, but I think that in large part they feared the backlash. IIRC, they had a lot of backlash in Turkey for misrepresentation of some historical figures (a lot of backlash was about Suleiman), timeline, and relationships to the point where show was almost cancelled despite the huge popularity. Historically, Hurrem attracted Suleiman with her cheerful disposition. I think backlash would have been even worse if they changed that.

The problem with Hurrem transitioning was that they had roughly two ways to do it. Have her transition before she met Suleiman and have her transition with Suleiman's help. The former wasn't really an option because the entire premise was heavily advertised as this huge love story and initial push was largely due to popularity of actor playing Suleiman, rooted greatly in another romantic show. It would be too much of a gamble for them. The latter would be impossible with regards to the portrayal of Suleiman. I think that it would have been best had they avoided the early Hurrem angst altogether by having it be more in the past for Hurrem, but I think they wanted to use it for parallels with Ibrahim later on.

As I say, her characterization gets better and more consistent latter on as she starts progressing. I think that what they were going for was "tortured young woman who had a bit of luck and had let it get to her head" as a way to show the side of Hurrem many Turkish historians depicted and the tortured part is there for people to feel sympathy. In historical records, Hurrem was portrayed rather negatively very often. You'll still see that Hurrem return from time to time and come to surface, but even Hurrem herself admits to occasionally being petty or as she calls it, childish.

Brian Turner said:

There are times when Magnificent Century demands patience - there is pointless repetition, and some scenes drag on more than necessary. By Western TV standards, it could really benefit from a good editor.

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I think that this is a Turkish cinematography thing. I didn't follow many other Turkish shows, but they put them on TV here a lot and my mother was a huge fan of some of them so I saw parts of them whenever I went home (Karagül [Black Rose] - which was insanely popular here to the point where everyone and their grandmother watched it, Adını Feriha Koydum [Girl Named Feriha] - one actress from there will make a début in Magnificent Century eventually as a very important character, 1001 gece (1001 Night) - the show I mentioned in previous post as the one where actor playing Suleiman starred, Sıla [Sila - it's a name] - main actress from there will also début in Magnificent Century, Ezel [Ezel - it's a name], etc. Those are all I remember). These happened in all of them.