Scrivener - What do I need to know?

Fishbowl Helmet said:

You would honestly need more than four other programs to get that kind of functionality.

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I prefer four mass usage multi-platform tools that are really good instead of one expensive Swiss army knife from a specialist company for a niche market, because of how software is developed. Or even ten programs to handle more specialist activities. Smaller fewer function programs are always inherently better. That's why Mac, Linux, Windows have files, windows and and operating system.

Similarly I don't want a wordprocessor to have a built in image editor or spreadsheet. Word after 2003 is for example too bloated with stuff no-one needs.

It's funny. I always want the swiss army knife. because to be honest...I'm too lazy to figure out ten programs.

Ray McCarthy said:

I prefer four mass usage multi-platform tools that are really good instead of one expensive Swiss army knife from a specialist company for a niche market, because of how software is developed. Or even ten programs to handle more specialist activities. Smaller fewer function programs are always inherently better. That's why Mac, Linux, Windows have files, windows and an operating system.

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In your not so humble opinion. Good for you. But lots of other people don't share your opinion.

And in my opinion, that's a terrible analogy. Scrivener isn't a bloated operating system with dozens of pointless programs added on. It's a laser-focused program that does one thing brilliantly. That thing happens to be desktop publishing. You still need Photoshop or similar for cover design and you still need InDesign for print book layout, but if you're producing an ebook at all, it's hands down the best value on the market.

And really? Expensive? Since when is $45 for one program with the functionality of so many smaller programs expensive? You're not going to get all those dozen programs with that level of functionality and support for free.

Similarly I don't want a wordprocessor to have a built in image editor or spreadsheet. Word after 2003 is for example too bloated with stuff no-one needs.

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So you hate Open Office and it's derivatives then? What with the word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software all bundled together.

Totally unrelated question: do you abhor smart phones too?

Fishbowl Helmet said:

You're not going to get all those dozen programs with that level of functionality and support for free.

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Yes, you are, with better support and flexibility especially outside the over priced niche Mac platform.
It's a well established fact in software engineering that smaller more focused programs are better. Scrivener attempts to be an entire system for authoring. It's fine, and best solution for some people, especially some Mac users (I know there is a lesser version on Windows and none on Linux) but a niche and certainly not the best for everyone. It's a lock in solution.

Fishbowl Helmet said:

So you hate Open Office and it's derivatives then? What with the word processor, spreadsheet, and presentation software all bundled together.

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I use Libre Office. That's a collection of programs. It's not a single program.The word processor is a little bloated, so for 1st draft writing I use Notepad++ and use it for almost all the non-story resource text.

Unlike most people with MS Office or Scrivener I have used dozens of word processors and text editors over the years on CP/M, DOS, Windows (non-NT, NT and CE), Mac, UNIX, VMS, Linux, Android etc. I've even written one (especially for Audio transcription). I've taught Word Processing and Desk Top Publishing in two dedicated computer training colleges and also in a business college to trainee secretaries, so my opinion is backed by experience and education

What have smart phones to do with it? They are just tablet computers with small screens and a built in phone. Handy instead of a pocket notebook. I use a free android app that makes totally portable text files that can be read by any laptop program later via USB.

So Scrivener may best suit some people, but in general people are better learn a set of more dedicated function programmes and how to use their computer, how to organise files and folders. No program is a substitute for learning how to organise and file (virtual) and do backups. Apple could scrap the Mac OS and Mac platform and do only iOS. It's a tiny niche for them, they have brought out a Mac Air like ARM tablet with keyboard cover. They scrapped Computer from the name and their servers already. If you have the money a Mac is pretty, but I sure don't want to be locked into that eco-system.

Ray McCarthy said:

It's a well established fact in software engineering...

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There's also a vast gulf between what the engineers think is good and what the end users prefer.

Unlike most people with MS Office or Scrivener I have used dozens of word processors and text editors over the years on CP/M, DOS, Windows (non-NT, NT and CE), Mac, UNIX, VMS, Linux, Android etc. I've even written one (especially for Audio transcription). I've taught Word Processing and Desk Top Publishing in two dedicated computer training colleges and also in a business college to trainee secretaries, so my opinion is backed by experience and education.

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Are we already at the part of the conversation where you try to gussy up your opinion as fact? Yep, looks like.

Thanks guys. Let's not let this get out of hand.

I am going to download the free trial because I do like a program that does it all, and I don't mind paying for that. I have seen enough to know that I will find value in the software. If I don't find myself using any of the features, I may look to using something else.

To be fair, I was asking for opinions and it seems I did get some.

My opinion is that Scrivener is great and that you should use Scrivener. Been using it for three years, never had a problem, and it's increased the efficiency of my workflow a great deal.

The best parts about Scrivener for me were two-pane view for research materials and the fullscreen mode for comfortable writing. I switched to WriteMonkey a while ago. It uses Markup language so it's pretty versatile, but for straight writing you would just need #Header for easy chapter navigation, *italics* and maybe **bold**. You can export directly to Word and everything is formatted. It's free, but if you donate you will get access to a lot of useful plugins like corkboard, name generator, thesaurus, etc. (I donated 5 euro but there's no minimum as far as I can tell). Very customizable and lots of features in a minimalist package. Windows only but apparently he's working on a new version to support Mac/Linux.

www.writemonkey.com

As handy as Scrivener is you're probably going to do some formatting in another program anyway.

I do my print layout in InDesign, and I use Scapple for mind-mapping and tracking complex relationships, but other than that I just export to .mobi and .epub directly.

Scrivener 2.7 has just been released - not massive changes other than interface but one of the most exciting things is the changes that will bring it closer to being available on iOS for iPad and iPhone. This hasn't been announced yet but has been under the RADAR for over a year now. I'm really hopeful we can get it by Xmas.

Main changes in this update are available in this short Youtube video

pH

I think I've tried just about everything available free or paid trials, even script writing programs and I don't write scripts, but Scrivener was the one that made me feel right at home. I totally love it. If you prefer multiple functionality, I don't think you'll ever turn back.

I just got the free trial, started organising my WIP on it and I love it so far. Pretty certain I'm going to pay for the full version. I like how all of your notes can be all in one place, and its a really tidy way to organise your work. Still getting to grips with it, so I'm sure there is more functionality I haven't found yet. Maybe I should read the manual!

I bought a chromebook to write on because it was the cheapest thing that is portable, and I love the keyboard on it, so have been using Google Docs for my current WIP. I have been saving the chapters in individual files and backing them up on my computer. Haven't had much problems with it other than last night where it told me it couldn't save and I had to copy my work and revert to the last save it had, pretty scary moment when the last two hours work might have been hanging in digital space without its safety rope. I reverted and only lost one word tho, so it was ok.

Got second thoughts about it now.

Google spybook.
It's not the cheapest portable thing either. You can probably put Linux Mint with Mate Desktop and then it's a real netbook.

What ever anyone uses, Chrome book, Scrivener, whatever, you need a USB HDD for backups (USB sticks or SD cards die without warning and are less reliable) and an offsite backup. Google Docs, Azure, Dropbox, Amazon etc are cloud services suited to sync between devices, sharing or collaboration, they are absolutely not offsite backups.
You need at least two different backups.

Very much in agreement there and totally wise. Our bled words are too precious to risk losing!