TØny Hine
Active Member
Ah! but there are also the hinted at, but unmentionable fringe benefits!
Humans
- Thread starter Rodders
- Start date
Ah! but there are also the hinted at, but unmentionable fringe benefits!
Yeah, knowing that others have advanced knowledge and explanations for the plot takes the fun out of speculation. Probably the best route for US viewers is to limit themselves to more generalized comments on the series rather than specific episodes.
Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
If you are right where does Anita fit in? She is totally different from the other two. She is basically brainwashed to think that she is a new robot when really she has lived a whole different life. A glaring hole in the series is that the Robots apparently become more human when they break. It's clear Anita broke at some point in her lifetime, and I've read some theories about when that could be in regards to David and Leo, but if Max is more advanced or newer than Anita, why does she seem to have the ability to hide her agenda? Now, it looks like she is not purposely hiding the memories or actions, but I have a feeling all that has to change. She can't be kept in the dark forever there wouldn't be much of a story for her then. I guess Laura's concerns are really rubbing off on me!
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Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
I don't necessarily agree with you here. While I think it is quite early in the Robotic Era (if futurists want to call it that). In the pilot they are advertised as something new, but as we get deeper into the show. We see that there are already huge industries devoted to the synths and also backdoor illegal goings-on. The re-programmers and the fights for instance. Which leads me to believe that they might be new for the everyday working class. I liked that they compared it to a car payment. People freaked out about automobiles when they were first affordable and practical. Same thing is happening with the synths.
This means that a whole bunch of ethical questions and indeed laws have already happened in this world about robots and how they should be viewed. Yet on the same page, as more and more people get them. They are and will continue to be treated as equal. Humans is advertising that a war is coming and that simple concept will be at the very center of it.
The series shows throughout that they are already used for different and government sanctioned purposes. Most seem to be used for medical purposes and I actually don't think the sex brothel went far enough!!!! It was literally too small and still seen as shady to the police. With these things the sex industry would explode and become normalized. In fact, in real life, I have a funny feeling that the sex industry will introduce sexbots to the public first.
Episode 4 seems to be the best episode and it got the most ratings since the premier.
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I see Max as more like the first prototype, the least advanced of Elster's "humanized" Synths. I would put Mia/Anita as the model created just before Leo. Nyska and Fred would fall somewhere between Max and Mia.
I don't think Mia was even slightly "brainwashed" when reprogrammed by the junkers and resold to the Synth dealership. Her self-aware programming remained intact. Her Anita persona is just her cover.
1.04
Is Karen another conscious Synth? If so, is she another of Elster's experiments? Human or Synth, no one can deny she is one detective who can really hold her liquor.
Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
1.04
Is Karen another conscious Synth? If so, is she another of Elster's experiments? Human or Synth, no one can deny she is one detective who can really hold her liquor.
Lol at that! These revelations makes you wonder who else is a synth doesn't it?
Now an interesting thing here is that the show is called humans rather than synths. Though I can't see it going down the Lost route and the synths are actually humans and vice versa! Though that theory could explain why the robots essentially become more human when they break. In an alternate world. Anything is possible.
1.05
No more doubt about Karen being a Synth. Still not sure about Leo's status.
I noticed that when Leo told Niska about the consciousness code, he said they could make more of "you"-- not "us." A few seconds later, he was back to using "us."
I'm now guessing that Leo is not a Synth. He started as a full, flesh-and-blood human but has acquired some artificial Steve Austin (not the pro wrestler) replacement parts along the way. I'm waiting for that six-million dollar bionic sound effect when he does something unusual, like bench-press a Ford F-150.
The best moment of this episode: George convincing Vera that Nyska is not a Synth by using Vera's own robotic logic against her. Vera's sensors said Synth! Synths cannot lie, therefore, if Nyska tells Vera that she is not a Synth, she cannot be a Synth. How very Kirklike.
I noticed that when Leo told Niska about the consciousness code, he said they could make more of "you"-- not "us." A few seconds later, he was back to using "us."
I'm now guessing that Leo is not a Synth. He started as a full, flesh-and-blood human but has acquired some artificial Steve Austin (not the pro wrestler) replacement parts along the way. I'm waiting for that six-million dollar bionic sound effect when he does something unusual, like bench-press a Ford F-150.
The best moment of this episode: George convincing Vera that Nyska is not a Synth by using Vera's own robotic logic against her. Vera's sensors said Synth! Synths cannot lie, therefore, if Nyska tells Vera that she is not a Synth, she cannot be a Synth. How very Kirklike.
Verse
Well-Known Member
Let's hope the cognitive dissonance doesn't backfire like it did with HAL-9000 in 2001: A Space Odyssey.
I've seen 1.06 - it doesn't - poor Vera!
1.05
You were right about Anita being "brainwashed." Looks like those junkers were more talented reprogrammers than I thought.
Leo couldn't connect with Mia, even though Anita had no reason to continue the act under the circumstances. Yet, it must have been Mia who cried "help me" when Mattie was probing her code. She's still in there.
Leo couldn't connect with Mia, even though Anita had no reason to continue the act under the circumstances. Yet, it must have been Mia who cried "help me" when Mattie was probing her code. She's still in there.
Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
Yup and the piss-poor hacker robot team can't find her? It reminds me of people who hate smartphones. Their belief, the makers of smartphones put so much stuff in the phones that the actual phone part is being lost.
It looks like this is Dr. Millican's chief concern with David's research and supposed advances. Dr. Millican's seems to believe that the robots should be nothing but tools to help humans but seems to realize their potential and is utterly shocked, amazed and disappointed when he comes into contact with a "conscious" synth. I think he feels that David has essentially put so much human stuff in the robots that they are essentially human-less. Not quite human, but not advanced in anything really but taking orders from their primary users. Dr. Millican probably feels like I do, I mean why make such remedial models? They can be so much more. Partially why Dr. Millican's outburst when he complains
Compiling the human mind into a few lines of code...
Even though, the supposedly conscious ones make even worse humans than the non-conscious ones and are beginning to become very one dimensional characters. Whoever plays Odi has shown more acting ability than the other synths combined. Though, I do like Max's creepiness. Did the writers of Pixar's Inside-Out get to read these scripts?? I mean the similarities between those two plots are pretty striking sans robots.
Especially considering that each Robot appears to "be" one emotional type needed to complete the power source for the program.
Computers these days, with all those apps are already a bit smarter than those synths. Though, they can't do things by themselves it's getting pretty close to that point. Now if you want to talk algorithms well...They blow the synths away. Even Cortana and Siri seem a bit smarter. The synths are too dumb in my opinion.
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Warren_Paul
Banishment this world!
Based on my experience doing computer programming as a hobby, I can't agree with your comparison to computers of today. The apps themselves aren't smart, they don't think, have no intelligence; you give it a command and it processes that command based on previous programming written by a human being -- it can only do tasks that the programmer has written instructions on how to perform. Present day computers can only be as "intelligent" -- for lack of a better word -- as the people who program them. Currently, and possibly for all eternity, it's impossible to surpass human intelligence because that's not how programming as we know it works.
The way I see it, the synths are exactly the same. They can only be as intelligent as the people who created them. Of course the people who created them are more intelligent than the average person, which gives us the impression that synths are smarter than humans, but really, they aren't...
Now I don't disagree that Odi might be a great actor and deserves some kind of award. But... I'm not sure what you think a human synth should be acting like, as I don't see any of the "normal" synths, including Odi, acting anything close to humanlike -- they do exactly what they are programmed to do without questioning it. That's not human.
In regards to the conscious synths, if their creator was flawed, especially in regards to personality, then it is reasonably fair to imagine that the conscious synths would be flawed as well, because those flaws would influence the programming of their ethical and psychological processes; they would take on personality traits of their creator and those flaws would affect how they respond to problems.
Humans are flawed, nobody is perfect, and everyday life is full of people questioning what others have told them to do. The fact that the conscious synths are demonstrating those flaws quite clearly with the emotional archtypes you've noticed is very humanlike and something the normal synths aren't capable to reproducing, even Odi. You don't see the normal synths in the brothel getting upset and murdering people when they are with a client -- they are just following their programming; it's what they are designed to do. Niska wasn't designed to be that way, she never wanted to be a prostitute, hated that they forced her to be; she was taken against her will and raped. The fact that she can be "taken against her will" makes her more human than any normal synth.
I suppose in the end, any perceived one-dimensional characters or "stupidity" are purely the fault of the writers and actors not being up to the task of fulfilling their roles.
Wow... I'm writing a novel here. Sorry for that...
That they don't know how to fix her is nothing bad about the show; I wouldn't know how to fix her either. It's no surprise that they have encountered something they don't know the solution to yet. They might be the best programmer in existence and even then still come across problems they don't know the solution to. Programming is a never ending education process; programmers are students for life.
Anyway, it's not really brainwashing at all, and more like a split personality, but my explanation is hard to give without possibly spoiling future episodes. Click the spoiler if you want to know.
There are two completely separate people inside of her body. But because they don't understand this, they can't fix her. They are looking at the main person in control and wondering why that person isn't Mia.
In computing terms, what the junkers tried to do was format her hard drive and reinstall a new operating system onto her. The new system is Anita. But they made a mistake, they missed the backup of Mia hidden away inside of her. So now there are two operating systems inside of her, Anita and Mia, and that backup operating system is conflicting with Anita and fighting for control of the body.
Unless they know that backup exists, they'll never be able to solve the problem.
In computing terms, what the junkers tried to do was format her hard drive and reinstall a new operating system onto her. The new system is Anita. But they made a mistake, they missed the backup of Mia hidden away inside of her. So now there are two operating systems inside of her, Anita and Mia, and that backup operating system is conflicting with Anita and fighting for control of the body.
Unless they know that backup exists, they'll never be able to solve the problem.
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Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
So basically your whole premise now makes no sense and it's full of contradictions. It is possible that there are different versions of synths out there and that they at different levels of intelligence, but
Niska told Dr. Millican that her experiences have shaped her and made her the way she is.
If a Synth can connect directly into the internet and a human mind thus far cannot. The synth will therefore be smarter than the human. Algorithms written today are smarter than the hedge fund managers who use them. It's likely most of them don't know the programming behind them. Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft Et All, are all smarter networks collectively than their human counterparts, but yes, they still need humans to operate them...for now.
Facebook and Twitter can read the human collective mind pretty well. That does not mean, they can necessarily act human. This falls back to Star Trek and Data, he spent nearly ten whole years trying to become human throughout the series and movies. He got pretty damn close, but he was not human!
I don't think synths should be acting exactly like humans and I think Dr. Millican would share this concern with me. I think they should be more like tools. It looks like the more advanced limited edition synths were designed to be more human and less tool. Yet the synths can and should be much more. This is under much debate from robotics and futurists wondering why a synth-type robot isn't already on the market. It comes down to one-part fear and one-part the flaws in the human body itself. I'm not one to play god (only in writing) but some in robotics believe that the human shape would make a bad robot and that there are clear benefits to using different robot forms to do many different tasks instead of just a familiar face on a pole.
That's a problem with the notion of AI. If synths cannot be anything more than what they are programmed to be, it is unclear how long Niska was in the brothel and even why she suddenly had an outburst/start killing random people that have nothing to do with the brothel. It's not very logical nor acting like a computer would. One single AI could do much more damage with all their knowledge that they could consume within seconds. Basically she could be a Terminator on steroids but isn't.
I would agree with you one that, if that is the one fault I can find with the show it is that.
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Warren_Paul
Banishment this world!
I think you misunderstood me, perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, but it doesn't matter because I think I also misinterpreted what you were saying in the original post, which now makes that argument completely pointless and off-topic. Joys of the internet. I won't derail the thread any further.
I think we are approaching the show from completely different perspectives of what we expected from it. It isn't the advanced robotics show with badass synths acting all logical and cool that you seem to want. You're saying that you don't think the conscious synths should be acting like humans, but the very purpose of their creation was to act like humans. That's the point of the show. Hence why it is called "Humans."
If you wanted a show that demonstrated the advanced nature of synthetics and how they could surpass mankind, them I'm afraid this isn't the show for you.
I think we are approaching the show from completely different perspectives of what we expected from it. It isn't the advanced robotics show with badass synths acting all logical and cool that you seem to want. You're saying that you don't think the conscious synths should be acting like humans, but the very purpose of their creation was to act like humans. That's the point of the show. Hence why it is called "Humans."
If you wanted a show that demonstrated the advanced nature of synthetics and how they could surpass mankind, them I'm afraid this isn't the show for you.
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Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
That may be the point of the show, but it isn't and shouldn't be the end game for artificial intelligence or computer personal assistants.
If sentient androids are truly coming, and even top minds like Stephen Hawking's believes they are, then we would be wise not to piss them off. Going to war against them is a guaranteed path to extinction.
We initially could make ourselves useful by performing those menial tasks assigned to the "normal" Synths in Humans. When all of those were automated, perhaps we could attain the status of beloved household pets -- kept around for companionship or amusement, possibly taught a few new tricks.
I would prefer a future in which humans and machines merge, by transferring human consciousness to new android bodies, incorporating maintenance nanites into our cellular structures or some combination of both. If we are fully integrated as the machines advance, we all go along for the ride.
The question then becomes, how much of our humanity are we willing to sacrifice to survive?
We initially could make ourselves useful by performing those menial tasks assigned to the "normal" Synths in Humans. When all of those were automated, perhaps we could attain the status of beloved household pets -- kept around for companionship or amusement, possibly taught a few new tricks.
I would prefer a future in which humans and machines merge, by transferring human consciousness to new android bodies, incorporating maintenance nanites into our cellular structures or some combination of both. If we are fully integrated as the machines advance, we all go along for the ride.
The question then becomes, how much of our humanity are we willing to sacrifice to survive?
Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
Not surprising but still welcoming news. We got season 2: AMC has still got it post-Breaking Bad and Mad Men.
http://deadline.com/2015/07/humans-renewed-season-2-amc-channel-4-1201488376/
http://deadline.com/2015/07/humans-renewed-season-2-amc-channel-4-1201488376/
Yes, I've just seen that being reported on the Grauniad site: Channel 4 renews Humans for second series ahead of season finale.
Cli-Fi
John J. Falco
Wow I guess maybe I was wrong about their potential to write about the complex issues relating to the types of AI that they have created here. Maybe they will address my concerns in season 2. One can hope!
Warren_Paul
Banishment this world!
I think more likely the article is just playing it up for the hype meter but will see
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