The Hugo Awards Kerfuffle...

Brian Turner said:
How long before the Hugos are voted on, and this whole business can be over? :)
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This round of votes? August. But according to the Pups, never. They will just keep going. I think someone already made the perfect Python reference above. 'Nice award you have there, shame if something were to happen to it.'
 
Last I read, Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies were planning another campaign for next year already.
 
Srylanna said:
Last I read, Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies were planning another campaign for next year already.
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Will it be that hard for them to form their own con and award?

More importantly can somebody please suggest it as an alternative to political guerilla warfare and social media shenanigans.
 
JaimeRetief said:
Will it be that hard for them to form their own con and award?

More importantly can somebody please suggest it as an alternative to political guerilla warfare and social media shenanigans.
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Nonono. You see. This is their battle against the "SJWs" and the unfair bias. It is all very altruistic. Totally nothing to do with anything personal or something. Purely objective. It is about awareness and raising the standard of the award. Totally not about having it their way or no way at all.

All joking aside, it is attention that they want. And if teenage girls on facebook had proven anything over the last few years, it is that social media shenanigans are the way to get it. None of this matters without an audience and nothing attracts it like conflict.
 
JaimeRetief said:
Will it be that hard for them to form their own con and award?

More importantly can somebody please suggest it as an alternative to political guerilla warfare and social media shenanigans.
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You seem to be operating under the assumption that those folks are logical and reasonable. They continue to cling to notions like other races are inferior and homosexuality is a huge threat to their religion and marriages and must be condemned and purged. They don't want their own award, they want to have control of THIS award because they don't like what they think it means and if they don't get their way they're going to take the ball and go home (ie. wreck the awards). I have no doubt it's been suggested to them multiple times that they make their own awards, but what if they throw an award show and nobody goes? Then they'd have to confront the fact that their views truly are fringe and society has moved past them. They can't have that because it shatters their delusion of representing some great, silent American majority just waiting for the right Grand Wizard... er... writer to lead them. So they stir stuff like this up because it's the only way they can keep relevant and FEEL like they have more numbers and influence than they actually do.
 
soulsinging said:
You seem to be operating under the assumption that those folks are logical and reasonable. They continue to cling to notions like other races are inferior and homosexuality is a huge threat to their religion and marriages and must be condemned and purged. They don't want their own award, they want to have control of THIS award because they don't like what they think it means and if they don't get their way they're going to take the ball and go home (ie. wreck the awards). I have no doubt it's been suggested to them multiple times that they make their own awards, but what if they throw an award show and nobody goes? Then they'd have to confront the fact that their views truly are fringe and society has moved past them. They can't have that because it shatters their delusion of representing some great, silent American majority just waiting for the right Grand Wizard... er... writer to lead them. So they stir stuff like this up because it's the only way they can keep relevant and FEEL like they have more numbers and influence than they actually do.
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Fanboys and con attendees being reasonable, what a laugh.

As I said already, I do not care about the Hugo and Nebula awards, I am even willing to go along with the Puppies' argument that the awards do not give awards to quality books.
However that is the case because these events represent a very small subsection of the entire fandom and because science fiction in general is experiencing of a decline.
The so called SJWs are annoying, prone to histrionics and usually guilty of shallow oversimplifications and extreme and uncompromising political partisanship, but I doubt that they have the organizational capacity and persistance to take over science fiction publishing and fandom in some type of cloak and dagger behind the scenes invasion.
In my opinion they are incapable of getting drunk in a wine cellar.
 
Actually, that kind of badspeak is highly derogatory of wine cellar owners and serves only to perpetrate the oppressive stereotype of wine cellar owners as being drunkards. You are therefore a terrible, wicked person, and I will be telling everyone I know so they can see how great I am.

In seriousness, I think the SJWs have the better of the argument, although I am highly reluctant to trust the literary opinion of anyone who thinks that "manpain" is an actual word. My main impression is that I don't really want to be involved in it at all.
 
To be fair, though, I think the people who are trying to support diversity and not be knee-jerk rude about people because of gender/ sexuality/ race (some people call them "social justice warriors") have won this confrontation, whatever happens at the Hugos.

EDIT: Toby. You have appalled me. Who says "manpain" is a word? Unless it's a delicious new kind of bread...?
 
Toby Frost said:
Actually, that kind of badspeak is highly derogatory of wine cellar owners and serves only to perpetrate the oppressive stereotype of wine cellar owners as being drunkards. You are therefore a terrible, wicked person, and I will be telling everyone I know so they can see how great I am.

In seriousness, I think the SJWs have the better of the argument, although I am highly reluctant to trust the literary opinion of anyone who thinks that "manpain" is an actual word. My main impression is that I don't really want to be involved in it at all.
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Oh, so only wine storage facility owners can enter wine storage facilities and that only they can get drunk, this is ableist, you should be ashamed of yourself.;)

Hex, are you implying that science fiction is misogynistic and homophobic in some way.
I do believe that we've had quite a few successful homosexual and female writers and more than a few science fiction novels dealing with sex change, nonstandard reproduction and homosexuality for that claim to be wrong.
 
Odd turn of phrase.

If I heard "manpain" out of context I would assume it referred to the singular and gender restricted activity of being struck/hit/knocked in the area known as "manregion" and more specifically in the "manparts".

This whole debacle has secured a significant amount of publicity for SP - I mean you only have to go onto most SFF forums and this is a top trending topic.
 
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Without any context, I'd have assumed that manpain was one of the (many) unbearable symptoms of man flu.
 
SilentRoamer said:
Odd turn of phrase.

If I heard "manpain" out of context I would assume it referred to the singular and gender restricted activity of being struck/hit/knocked in the area known as "manregion" and more specifically in the "manparts".

This whole debacle has secured a significant amount of publicity for SP - I mean you only have to go onto most SFF forums and this is a top trending topic.
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If you are going to quarrel over sjw terminology might I suggest that you do so on tumblr, where you will have ample opportunities to ask the sjw themselves?
 
Let's keep this polite and welcoming, please.

I thought 'manpain' was funny, and I think I may start to use the word 'manregion' in everyday conversation.

To answer your question above, JaimeRetief, I wasn't intending to suggest that science fiction is particularly homophobic or misogynistic. I intended to suggest the Puppies were.
 
As long as Thorin keeps singing about gold (which gives you some idea how long I sent staring at those words on the screen... so many, many years ago).

It's difficult to keep serious about the Hugo Awards thing, though I think the underlying principles are serious. Kind of a case of you have to laugh or you'd cry.
 
Hex said:
I thought 'manpain' was funny, and I think I may start to use the word 'manregion' in everyday conversation.

To answer your question above, JaimeRetief, I wasn't intending to suggest that science fiction is particularly homophobic or misogynistic. I intended to suggest the Puppies were.
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As a man I find the concept of manpain offensive and sexist.:D

And I am not completely sold on the assumption that the Puppies are sexist, one remark quite possibly pulled out of context and the runner of the Rabid Puppies just aren't enough to convince me, they are as plausible as the mobile Iraqi WMD factories in my opinion.
There is always a strong desire to demonize the opposition in any fight, I do not think that this one is different.
But to paraphrase princess Leia, the harder they squeeze the more fans they will lose.

This is valid for both sides.
 
Maybe "mansplain" is the "word" Toby is referring to? More radical feminists use it to ignore any point made by men that they don't agree with.
 
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