Reread Thread Thingy

Anushka Mokosh

Anushka Mokosh

Matryona Marzanna
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Aug 31, 2012
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Some friends (@Perpertual Bran (The Teenager), @Zulkuss (The Young Adult), @Deɑth. (The Toddler), and one guy who isn't on this site yet (The Baby)) and I (The Granny) are doing a reread thingy of few chapters every week and discussions on out findings. We are pretty much including everything and anything and speculating about everything so it might seem repetitive, but hopefully we'll come up with something new.

We thought to post it here to get a broader feedback on our notes and hopefully spark some sort of discussion. They'll post theirs when they can, I presume.

These are my notes for Prologue + 5 chapters
PROLOGUE
Characters: Gared, Ser Waymar Royce, Will

The Others:
Their presence can be felt as a sort of primeval, unspecified fear and unease of being watched. Inherent preservation against predator?
The are accompanied by cold wind from the north. Is it always north or just happens to be the direction in this particular case?
Sun might be rendering the Dead immovable. Only direct sunlight?
Others bring the cold. Not the other way around. It is pretty clear here.
Others use crystal weapons. Connection to children using obsidian? Light crystal of ice vs dark crystals of earth? Obsidian & Valyrian Steel (both are connected to dragons/fire and earth) > Ice crystal > Steel > Obsidian
Crystal weapons have similar properties as Valyrian Steel. Possibly a similar spell on different starting material?
Five Others were present. How many are there?
Others are capable of emotion. The laugh as they butcher Waymar. Range of emotion is questionable. So is depth.


01. BRAN
Characters: Bran, Robb, Gared, Jon, Ned, Theon, Jory, Hullen, Harwin, Desmond

Timeline references:
Bran was born in second year of summer. He is 7.
Ned is 35.
Theon is 19.
Jon is 14.
Robb is 14.

Facts:
The man executed is Gared.

Old Nan’s Legends:
Wildlings = enslavers, slayers, and thieves; consorts of giants and ghouls, stealers of children, blood drinkers (from horns); females lay with the Others in the Long Night to sire half-humans; wildlings carry off women and sell them to Others

Recurring theme:
“Bran thought it curious that this pup alone would have opened his eyes while the others were still blind.” Open eyes.


02. CATELYN
Characters: Catelyn, Ned

Facts:
Ned comments that Gared was filled with fear. Can be tied in with possible primeval fear of a predator in the Prologue. Gared seems to have not mentioned Others in his final words making it possible that he just ran due to that primeval fear and he hadn’t seen the Others at all. It is possibly the only reason he returned alive from Beyond the Wall.

Timeline references:
Ned and Jon Arryn married Tully sisters 15 years prior to the start of the novel. Ned was 20 when he married Cat.
Rickon is 3.
Tommen is 7. Ned last saw him before he was less than 1 year old.


03. DAENERYS
Characters: Viserys, Daenerys, Illyrio, Old Woman, Illyrio’s favourite, Drogo, Moro, Rhogoro, Jorah Mormont,

Timeline references:
Daenerys and Viserys have lived with Illyrio for half a year.
Daenerys is 13.
Viserys was 8 when he fled KL and Daenerys was just conceived at the time as she was born 9 months afterwards.
Illyrio’s favourite was 16.

Facts:
Despite being younger, Dany sees more than Viserys. Can be tied to Jon.
First mention of red priests.
First mention of Rhaegar loving Lyanna. Information comes from Viserys, but what can he know?
Dany was born on Dragonstone during a storm that smashed the Targaryen fleet. Her mother died in childbirth. Relevant to PWWP prophecy.
William Darry and 4 people took the siblings from Dragonstone to Braavos. Who were the other 4?
First mention of technical slavery in Pentos.
First mention of Dany liking the scalding heat. “The Fire is in our blood.” Possible to tie in with the theory of Targaryen’s dragon blood.
Illyrio blessed Dany with the Lord of Light blessing. He doesn’t seem to believe in it. His comments about Lord of Light protecting the walls of Pentos seem to indicate that.
Illyrio smiles while Viserys speaks about killing Robert himself. He possibly already knew that Robert’s death was not that long in coming or expected Viserys’ death. Either way, he possibly wanted them both removed. Possibly because of Aegon?


04. NED
Characters: Ned, Jaime, Sandor, Joffrey, Tyrion, Robert, Cersei, Myrcella, Catelyn,

Timeline references:
Balon’s Rebellion was 9 years prior to the start of the novel. Last time Robert and Ned saw each other.
Robert Arryn is 6.
Brandon Senior was 20 when he died.
Lyanna was 16 when she died.
Sansa is 11.

Fact:
Iron keeps the dead spirits in the crypts.
Ned is very cynical.
First mention of Ned’s promise to Lyanna.
Ned thinks of how responsibility of the realm is not what he wants. Ned dislikes and feels uncomfortable about holding responsibility.
Robert’s comments about Lyanna. It is implied he does not know her very well due to discrepancy between Ned’s words and Robert’s, but also that he seems to villainize Rhaegar and idealize Lyanna. It could be explained as his rationalization is his actions as Robert pretty much went to war for Lyanna and Rhaegar’s only sin was Lyanna in a way.


05. JON
Characters: Jon, Cersei, Ned, Robert, Catelyn, Rickon, Robb, Myrcella, Arya, Tommen, Sansa, Joffrey, Jaime, Tyrion, Benjen, Theon

Facts:
Jon saw through Cersei’s smile and noted her anger while he guessed the likely cause. Jon sees Robert for what he is. He comments on Myrcella being insipid. He also things that Jaime is kingly. Can be tied in with the recurring theme of open eyes. Also, Jon is a judgemental ass at times. Myrcella is just a silly girl at that point and he was jealous of Robb.
Jon lies to himself when he is hurt.
Robb is better than Jon at lance, but Jon is better at sword.
Benjen sees Jon as a son he never had. “More’s the pity.” Odd choice of words.

Timeline References:
Arya is two years younger than Sansa making her 9.
Joffrey is 12.

Recurring theme:
Bastards grow up faster is attributed to Maester Luwin this time.
Small man casting a big shadow. “When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard and for just a moment, Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.” Foreshadowing maybe?
 
Prologue:
  • Ser Waymar is a bit arrogant. He is learned, capable and brave, which suggests he has a noble’s sort of pride.
  • Gared is experienced, and has some wisdom.
  • Will was superstitious even before he came to the wall. He’s also a bit cowardly.
  • White walkers are definitely as intelligent as humans, or smarter.
  • The material used for their swords and armor is probably the cold equivalent to valyrian steel. I would say obsidian, but it seems forged rather sculpted and the parallel in sharpness is very striking.
Chapter 1 - Bran I:
  • It’s already the end of summer in the north even at the beginning of the book. This is relevant to some prophecies we'll be encountering later.
  • Jon is fast and perceptive while Robb is bulky and judgmental. Looks like a rivalry cliché to me.
  • “A man can only be brave when he’s afraid.” A bit of wisdom that we should keep in mind.
  • Jon’s link to ghost was established before he found him, since he heard him even though ghost is mute. Ghost was also oddly the first to open his eyes among the direwolves. It goes nicely with the fact that Jon also displayed a more grown up attitude than Robb regarding the pups.
  • I just realized that Theon is too nice in the show’s first season.
Chapter 2 - Catelyn I:
  • Ned is pretty cynical for a Stark. Catelyn is rather superstitious for a Tully.
  • One of the pools, specifically the one nearest the heart tree is cold.
  • “Winter is coming!” given that Ned isn’t very superstitious seems to hold the more down to earth harsh meaning of cold and cruelty to Ned. The last long winter hasn’t been kind to him.
  • It’s funny how Old Nan’s stories serve to disillusion adults about the truth in them.
Chapter 3 - Daenerys I:
  • You can already see that Dany is wiser than her brother, even in her very first chapter.
  • “The dragon!” lol
  • I wonder if Rheagar really did love Lyanna or if he was just guided by some prophecy, or both.
  • I just realized that if R+L=J is true, Jon, Dany & Tyrion would all have mothers that died in childbirth.
Chapter 4 - Eddard I:
  • “The winters are hard,” Ned admitted. “But the Starks will endure. We always have.” I hope this is true.
  • Man, every time I hear about Lyanna, I want to see her more.
  • “I was with her when she died,” Ned reminded the king. “She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father.” He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. “I bring her flowers when I can,” he said. “Lyanna was... fond of flowers.”
  • It seems at first glance that the promise was only about burying her in the crypts at winterfell, but I think she was too passionate about the promise for it to be limited to that.
  • Hearing Robert talk, you’d think Rheagar was some sort of devil.
Chapter 5 - Jon I:
  • “Let me give you some counsel, *******,” Lannister said. “Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.” another cool piece of wisdom.
  • “just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.” I really hope this is foreshadowing something. But in the meantime, it does show Jon's perceptive side, because Tyrion is definitely more suited to rule than Jaime whom Jon had thought appeared kingly before.
  • By comparing Ned’s and Jon’s impressions on Tyrion, I just realized that Ned doesn’t even pay any attention to the only Lannister who’s worth anything and always focuses on the ones he doesn’t like. This way of lumping them together seems pretty narrow minded to me.
 
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Perpertual Bran said:
Prologue:
  • The material used for their swords and armor is probably the cold equivalent to valyrian steel. I would say obsidian, but it seems forged rather sculpted and the parallel in sharpness is very striking.
Click to expand...
Whitewalkers are supposed to be vulnerable to obsidian, so I don't think that would be it. It's funny though, I never put that much thought into exactly what their swords and armour are mad of, but I like the parallel that it is like the opposite of Valyrian Steel, which is called Dragon Steel by some. and obsidian is often referred to as dragon glass.

Perpertual Bran said:
Chapter 5 - Jon I:
  • “just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.” I really hope this is foreshadowing something. But in the meantime, it does show Jon's perceptive side, because Tyrion is definitely more suited to rule than Jaime whom Jon had thought appeared kingly before.
Click to expand...

Using a shadow to foreshadow is probably genius in its simplicity. Tyrion will may never be a king (unless the 7 kingdoms splits again and I so hope this happens) but he is definitely worthy of a crown.
 
Welcome, Mike Makaze. I urge you to be careful about reading any more on this site until you've finished A Game of Thrones. I noticed a number of spoilers and speculation in Srylanna's OP. Sry has a great memory. She notices many specifics and remembers lots of details... outstanding qualities for a book discussion, but maybe dangerous during an ongoing discussion where every chapter ends in a mini-cliffhanger. And even much more potentially damaging are the online discussions here. We do not always preference each thread with a spoiler warning... and many threads have outright major spoilers in the titles. One of reasons (maybe the main reason) I became engrossed in this series is the way the author was able to surprise me... He shocked me with evil befalling protagonists. He shocked me by making antagonists likable. Plot, counterplot, betrayal, love, intrigue, fidelity, cruelty... He makes the unexpected exciting. I'd like for you to enjoy it as well.
 
Praised, yes. Chided, no. We (and I am the biggest offender) tend to post titles and information regarding the state of the story after five books... and rightly so. This is the place to discuss the progress of the plots, the lives of the characters, the health of our faves, and the current politics of the throne. I just want Mike to know that he needs to be careful.
 
Notes Week 2 aka Let the Catelyn Hate Begin!
06. CATELYN
Characters: Catelyn, Ned, Desmond, Maester Luwin

Timeline References:
Cat was 12 when she was promised to Brandon Senior.
Ned was 8 when he was fostered at the Eyrie.

Facts:
Cat is wrong about Robert thinking giving Ned the position is an honor. Robert thinks the opposite. Her motivation is the direwolf with antler imbedded in its throat. Catelyn is prejudiced and superstitious. She also has ambitions about their position in the world.
Ned reaffirms that he never wanted such things. Possible reaffirmation of him never wanting big responsibility. It is also possible he was jealous of Brandon or that he is bitter about having a life he wouldn’t have without his brother’s death. Catelyn doesn’t understand at all.
Catelyn thinking Ned married her due to the customs.
Delivery of the letter for Catelyn was suspicious.
Catelyn wants Ned to go play investigator of Jon Arryn’s death. Ned thinks he should stay away. Further evidence of Catelyn’s poor judgement and sheer idiocy.
Luwin thinks Ned should go. Luwin’s judgement of the situation is no better than Catelyn’s. Ned is completely unsuited for the task.
Catelyn puts her wants above Ned’s needs. She is selfish.
Catelyn does not want the children to leave. Further reaffirmation of her selfishness. She wants to have it all.
Tales of Ashara Dayne as Jon’s mother are brought up. Ned may have really loved Ashara Dayne and was worried about her reputation for he had put a stop to the rumours about her being Jon’s mother. Furthermore, the timeline doesn’t align as Ned apparently fathered Jon on Ashara after the events at Tower of Joy according to what Catelyn thinks.
Ned says Jon is his blood to Catelyn, but calls him son in front of others not even leaving the parentage to rumours. Possible hint that Ned isn’t the father, but a relative and that Jon’s parentage needs to be kept a secret. He insists on calling Jon his son openly and Catelyn thinking that to be a trait of the North. However, we saw no similar treatment of a ******* in the North and the instance is peculiar even for Ned’s standards. It might imply the need to leave no doubts about Jon’s parentage.
Catelyn attempted to have Jon removed from Winterfell and is secretly glad for Luwin’s suggestion about Jon taking the black. She is one cruel woman. She is also a two-faced and hypocritical woman. She is hurting over Ned taking her children away, but holds no sympathy for Ned having to send Jon away. She’s apparently been asking him to send his son away for years, but reacts rather strongly when Ned says he’ll be taking some children to KL.

Recurring theme:
Starks were made for the cold.
Connection between childhood and summer.


07. ARYA
Characters: Arya, Sansa, Septa Mordane, Myrcella, Beth Cassel, Jeyne Poole, Jon, Bran, Tommen, Rodrik Cassel, Theon, Robb, Joffrey, Lew, Donnis, Sandor, Catelyn

Facts:
Arya is envious of Sansa.
Arya is quite witty for someone so young.
Arya is a capable horsewoman and good with numbers.
Ghost literally grew faster than other pups. Another thing to add to the ******* grow faster theme.
Jon doesn’t hide his cynicism and remarks from Arya.
Jon notices the peculiarity of Joffrey’s personal coat of arms.
“Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.” Jon notices that rules are unfair on both girls and bastards alike.
“Joffrey is truly a little sh*t.” Preach on, Jon. Preach on.

Timeline references:
Sandor killed a man when he was 12.


08. BRAN
Characters: Bran, Cersei, Jaime

Old Nan’s Legends:
Ghosts, Dungeons where terrible things are done, and dragon heads on walls in the KL palace

Facts:
Bran is afraid of the heart-tree.
Bran knows secret passages in Westeros.


09. TYRION
Characters: Tyrion, Chayle, Sandor, Joffrey, Jaime, Cersei, Tommen, Myrcella,

Facts:
Tyrion is willing to forgive anything to Jaime for the affection and respect Jaime gave him during Tyrion’s childhood.
“Even if the boy does live, he will be a cripple. Worse than a cripple. A grotesque. Give me a good clean death.” - by Jaime Wonderful piece of irony. Not sure if I should comment with “You can’t always get what you want.” or “Changed your mind yet?”
Tyrion never exactly cared for majority of his family. “Why, Jaime, my sweet brother,” he said, “you wound me. You know how much I love my family.”

Recurring theme:
“Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.”

10. JON
Characters: Jon, Catelyn, Robb, Arya

Fact:
Catelyn is so freaking cruel. Not that it wasn’t obvious from the get go, but while she wants to keep everything she holds dear safe and close, she doesn’t think others have a right to that. Yet, she always feel entitled to it.
Catelyn wishes for Bran to stay in Winterfell no matter what. Be careful what you wish for.
Jon attempted to console her. IMO, she doesn’t deserve it at all. Especially with the “It should have been you.” No, it freaking shouldn’t have been you poisonous woman. This chapter effectively made Catelyn my second most hated female character. I find nothing to absolve her here. Sure, she was suffering for Bran and there was likely even a degree of guilt involved, but that does not give her right to go ahead and hurt people around her who did nothing to her and who also suffered. It is pretty much “I’m hurt and feel crappy so everyone else should feel crappy” and that is a behaviour I can’t ever condone or justify.
Jon lies to Robb that Catelyn was kind. It is a kindness that she does not deserve and speaks to his credit.
The interaction between Arya and Jon. To me their interaction was always nothing short of amazing. They are both underdogs in a way in Winterfell (Jon to Robb, Arya to Sansa) and their conspiratory feeling makes their bond truly special. It is no wonder the lengths to which Jon is ready to go when he thinks Ramsay has Arya. If Jon is not Ned’s son, I wouldn’t mind the original plan about a love relationship between the two, but I think they work best in this brother-sister relationship.
“Different roads sometimes lead to the same castle.” oh please. Just please please please be foreshadowing. Please. XD
“... and showered him with kisses.”; The memory of her laughter warmed him on the long ride north. Yeah, I totally see the potential relationship there. I think I just jumped ships from Jonany to Jonrya. What’s 5 years in their world? Nothing. I am so broken ahahaha
 
Sry, I am mot rereading with you, but I do like reading your notes! Your comments about Eddard's life and aspirations made me think of George Bailey... the protagonist of It's a Wonderful Life. Both men had ideas they were never able to bring to fruition, both had the family business thrust upon them because of decisions their brothers made, both bore the responsibility of the financial and emotional health of their community, neither chose their life yet they tried their best, both of them fell into marriage, both of them were honest men who were unprepared for the unscrupulousness of the major players, and both lived with regret.

Every time bell rings, a dragon gets it's wings.
 
Boaz said:
Sry, I am mot rereading with you, but I do like reading your notes! Your comments about Eddard's life and aspirations made me think of George Bailey... the protagonist of It's a Wonderful Life. Both men had ideas they were never able to bring to fruition, both had the family business thrust upon them because of decisions their brothers made, both bore the responsibility of the financial and emotional health of their community, neither chose their life yet they tried their best, both of them fell into marriage, both of them were honest men who were unprepared for the unscrupulousness of the major players, and both lived with regret.

Every time bell rings, a dragon gets it's wings.
Click to expand...
I had the same thought. XD In a way, to me it seems that Ned just attempted to do best he could in a position he never wanted nor ever aspired to. His comments about Brandon being the one raised for the position make me think that rather than being bitter about not being the one it is intended for, he is bitter about leading a life he hadn't considered. Also, Catelyn is wrong. Ned and Jon married Tully sisters to get Riverlands for their cause and not because custom decreeds that Ned should marry Catelyn.
 
ArstenWhitebeard said:
Using a shadow to foreshadow is probably genius in its simplicity. Tyrion will may never be a king (unless the 7 kingdoms splits again and I so hope this happens) but he is definitely worthy of a crown.
Click to expand...
Do you believe the "Seven Kingdoms" will split again? I actually don't see that happening. Only kingdom that might find difficulty to join the rest is the North due its geographical isolation, different culture and the fact they've been constantly betrayed by the Iron Throne.

Other kingdoms would find it more willing to bend the knee. The westerlands, the Stormlands and Riverlands are in no position to fight anymore and it's wiser to just stop the bloodshedding altogether. The Vale can be tied to the North via Sansa if things works according to LF's plan, Dorne and the Reach would probably bend the knee for Aegon/Daenerys.

Which leaves us for the Iron Islands which should be razed to the ground, IMO.
 
Notes week 3 where I notice that my notes for Catelyn's chapters are twice as long as most my other notes
11. DAENERYS
Characters: Daenerys, Drogo, Viserys, Illyrio, Jorah, Irri, Jhiqui, Doreah, Haggo, Cohollo, Qotho

Facts:
Illyrio smiles wherever Viserys says something that would get him killed in khal’s presence. I really think that Illyrio sent Viserys away with the Dothraki to have him killed with as little hassle as possible.
Dany dreamt of a dragon night before her wedding. It was actually about waking a dragon because Viserys was kicking her for waking the dragon and then a real dragon showed up.
Illyrio’s gift of dragon eggs wasn’t really all that much by Dany’s estimation in regards to how much he earned from her wedding.


12. EDDARD
Characters: Eddard, Alyn, Robert, Boros, Meryn,

Facts:
Robert asks about Wylla. He doesn’t remember the exact name, but he names her Ned’s *******’s mother and Ned provides the name. I’m not sure how to interpret this. It seems to me like Ned had said a lie he was very unwilling to tell because he refuses to talk about it. The talk made him angry and he never even told Robert what she looked like.
Eddard and Robert had a huge fight about death of Rhaegar’s children. Ned called it a murder and Robert said: “I see no babes. Only dragonspawn.” This would go in favour of secrecy needed regarding Jon’s parentage if he is indeed connected to Targaryens.
Illyrio protected Viserys and Daenerys in his mansion. This is pretty much the only thing so far that speaks in favour of his protection of them since they would have likely ended up dead before that if he’d just let them be. However, it could be that he took them in without fully understanding just how bad Viserys was and then had to find a way to get rid of them while leaving his hands unbloodied in case something went wrong for his plans.
Ned thinks that he had lived his likes for 14 years and they still haunted him at night. Jon is 14. XD Somehow, I don’t think those lies are the fact that he hadn’t been open with Robert regarding the conquest of King’s Landing.
Reference to Lyanna’s promise is made as Ned when he notes that Robert avenged Lyanna at the Trident.

Timeline references:
Jaime was 17 when he killed Aerys.


13. TYRION
Characters: Tyrion, Benjen, Jon, Yoren, Morrec,

Facts:
Snow was falling at the departure from Winterfell. Foreshadowing maybe?
Dragonbone is black due to high iron content. Strong as steel yet lighter and more flexible.
There were 19 skulls in KL and oldest is 3000 years old, youngest century and a half.
Balerion > Meraxes > Vhaghar
Tyrion comments that Jon is a Stark even if he does not have the name and that his mother had left little in him. He also notes Jon’s poker face. Martin tends to twist conclusions characters reach. I can see this being one of them where it turns out Jon is completely in his mother’s likeness as opposed to his father’s.
Tyrion dreamt of dragons when he was about Jon’s age. Dany dreamt of dragons when she was a child and dreamt of one when she was 13. It is about that age so I can see this as being an argument for Tyrion, the Dragonrider theory even if I dislike it as is established a connection between Dany and Tyrion.
Tyrion used to dream about burning his father and sister. He also seems to have had a bit of an obsession with fire.
Tyrion says the he seldom dreams of dragons, but doesn’t deny he still dreams of them.
The kinship between Jon and Tyrion. They are very similar in regards to how they deal with the hand they were dealt. They prefer to look at it rationally and realistically and making the best of it they can. It is understandable that they would create a bond over that. I hope they will meet again sometime to see how the changed circumstances will play out that bond and how the bond will impact the events.

Timeline references:
Conquest was nearly 300 years earlier.


14. CATELYN
Characters: Catelyn, Luwin, Bran, Robb, Le Incompetent Assassin, Old Nan, Rodrik, Theon, Hallis,

Facts:
Catelyn lets her feelings impact her duties. This is one of the earliest and most prime examples. She gets stuck in this one role and fails at everything else, including the things that fall under that role. She reminds me of Marianne and her mother from Sense and Sensibility in that way. All sensibility, no fudging sense. She shows no fortitude in dealing with her grief and just lets the immediate emotion completely rule her until the next strong emotion takes a hold of her and then she devotes herself to that emotion.
She asked Ned to change his mind about going south. Same thing as above. She is so inconstant and unable to think beyond her immediate needs without taking into account needs and duties of others.
“Make them stop! I can’t stand it, make them stop,make them stop,kill them if you must, just make them stop.” This is what Catelyn says about the direwolves. It is after she had been proven that kids have the bond with those wolves. She doesn’t even think about any of that. In a way, the wolves are singing the same thing that Robb is telling her. All her children need her and are seeking her. In a way, if the parallel is pushed to extreme, she is practically asking for her children to be killed so she’d be left alone.
When fire breaks out, all she thinks about is Bran’s safety. Same thing as the first note here. She doesn’t even think about Rickon who she was told by Robb is walking around the castle unsupervised and this is my biggest beef with Catelyn. This tunnel vision is always seems to impose on herself because she perceives her duty in such a narrow way where her duty is whatever most engages her feelings at the given moment. It is why as Stoneheart she is so vengeful.
Catelyn prays as thanks for direwolves shutting up. I legitimately facepalmed here. Can she be more self-absorbed? Even after it was proven that Summer’s howls helped Bran, she can still think something like that.
Catelyn changes after Bran’s attack. I don’t think this is as well of a change as most would assume that she finally sets up to her duties. It is just that her grief is now overcome by the need to take revenge here. There is no sense in that either.


15. SANSA
Characters: Sansa, Septa Mordane, Arya, Mycah, Cersei, Sandor, Joffrey, Barristan, Renly, Illyn,

Facts:
Eddard lets Arya act as she wants. I think she reminds him of Lyanna a bit there so he lets her get away with her behaviour.
Sansa is jealous because Arya prefers the company of those “beneath” them as opposed to hers. She also holds issue with the fact that Arya isn’t sweet and delicate. Arya just doesn’t fit into the picture of the idealized world Sansa has and that is the main source of conflict between them. Sansa might also be jealous that Arya is so good at making friends.
Arya notes that she dislikes Cersei. This is something Arya and Jon have in common. They are much more realistic about people than Sansa is.
Sansa wishes Arya were a ******* and so her ideal family wouldn’t be impacted so much.
Sansa is a proper lady among the knights. It shows how good she is at playing a role that was assigned to her. Her biggest issues stream from the things that don’t fit in the role she thinks she has to play.
Sansa ask Joffrey and Arya to stop it because they were spoiling her day. This is my biggest beef with early Sansa. She doesn’t take issue with Joffrey attacking Arya with live steel. She doesn’t take issue with him practically admitting that he’d sadistically hurt a practically defenceless boy. She doesn’t take issue that her sister is fighting with Joffrey. She takes issue with them spoiling her picture perfect day, for ruining what she thinks is what things are supposed to be. She willingly blinds herself to it just to have the appearance of the perfection without objectively working for it. I blame Catelyn and Septa Mordane.
Sansa notices vilest contempt in Joffrey’s look. And she promptly ignores that for the chapters to come. It is so irritating that she willingly ignores that and makes it hard to really sympathise with her. If she was just a foolish girl who knew nothing, it would be more understandable and less reprehensive. However, she does see it, but because it is easier to pretend her image is intact she disregards it. It is like how she is wishing Arya were a ******* because then the picture would be nicer. Her eyes are wide shut.

Timeline references:
Mycah is 13.
 
Deɑth. said:
Do you believe the "Seven Kingdoms" will split again? I actually don't see that happening. Only kingdom that might find difficulty to join the rest is the North due its geographical isolation, different culture and the fact they've been constantly betrayed by the Iron Throne.

Other kingdoms would find it more willing to bend the knee. The westerlands, the Stormlands and Riverlands are in no position to fight anymore and it's wiser to just stop the bloodshedding altogether. The Vale can be tied to the North via Sansa if things works according to LF's plan, Dorne and the Reach would probably bend the knee for Aegon/Daenerys.

Which leaves us for the Iron Islands which should be razed to the ground, IMO.
Click to expand...

well both the North and the Iron Islands have already split from the rest of the Seven kingdoms. Dorne is in a good position to fracture as well, but if they support a Targ back into power, and they succeed, they may stay a part of the seven Five Kingdoms. Really it all depends who remains in power of the major houses.

I don't actually expect it to happen, but there would be a kind of poetic irony to it. Aegon the Conqueror united the 7 kingdoms under his rule so it would be fitting if the Last Targaryan (be it Dany or Aegon) were to split it back into its faction kingdoms.
 
Notes Week 4
16. EDDARD
Characters: Eddard, Vayon, Arya, Raymun, Robert, Cersei, Joffrey, Jory, Renly, Barristan, Sansa, Ilyn, Sandor,

Facts:
Renly laughed at Joffrey. Can’t say I don’t understand him.
Robert is a coward. Nothing else to say about this chapter. It isn’t very informative aside to the things that are already obvious. There isn't’ much to speculate about as this chapter is more about making the Stark/Lannister relations all the worse and creating the rift in the Stark household.


17. BRAN
Characters: Bran, Three-Eyed Crow,

Facts:
DreamBran is the same as actual Bran who is in comma. This strikes me as weird. Perhaps it is meant as another indication of it not being an ordinary dream.
Among his visions of Winterfell, Bran sees the heart tree of Winterfell lifting his eyes to look at him knowingly. Implies Bloodraven was watching Bran and Starks for a while.
Bran sees two shadows around his father. One dark as ash with face of a hound and the other one armored like sun, golden, and beautiful. Over both of them there is a giant looming in armour or stone with nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood. Either the inner darkness that both Jaime and Sandor carry, or premonition of death looming over them.
Bran looks towards Asshai by the Shadow where dragons stirr. Is it a premonition of Dany’s dragons or existence of other dragons in lands beyond Asshai?
Bran sees the heart of winter and Bloodraven says that is the reason he must live on. Bloodraven sees Bran as a champion against winter that is coming. This could be tied to vision Melisandre has of Bran. Only she misinterpreted it. R'hllor and Old Gods might both be naming their champions to battle the Others instead of facing off as Melisandre had interpreted it. We already know her vision interpretation is less than stellar to say the least.

Recurring theme:
“Every flight begins with a fall.” Can be connected to several characters including Dany, Jon, Bran, Arya, Sansa, etc.


18. CATELYN
Characters: Carelyn, Captain Moreo, Rodrik, Petyr, Varys

Facts:
Catelyn comments that Petyr is clever, but not wise. Despite Catelyn being terrible judge of character, I do wonder if this will come into play at some point as Petyr’s fatal flaw. This does seem to hold some merit.
Catelyn wonders what the years had done to Petyr. Yet, upon meeting him, she behaves as if he were still that little boy in love with her just be because he had similar behaviour as he did when he was a child. Such willing blinding to the facts and her own judgement made moments beforehands just because he seems to act the same.
Petyr says he lost the dagger to Tyrion when Jaime was unhorsed along with Cersei losing an emerald pendant. A hint towards him lying because no way would Tyrion give the pendant back to Cersei.

Timeline references:
At their duel, Petyr was 15, Brandon was 20.


19. JON
Characters: Jon, Grenn, Alliser, Jeren, Todder (Toad), Benjen, Donal, Tyrion,

Facts:
In his mind eye, Jon sees Benjen lying dead, his blood red on the snow. Jon thinks this is his own sick imagination at the slights he was experiencing, but it might be a premonition, a manifestation of his own powers due to close proximity to the wall which seems to amplify all things magical.
Jon misses Arya the most. In comparison, she has half the paragraph and half for the rest of the siblings. I am becoming such a sucker for Jonrya. Curse you, whoever leaked that original plot letter.
Jon is bit of a condescending prick and a bully here. It’s easy to forgive because he becomes better in this exact chapter. Still doesn’t really excuse lashing out on others entirely. He works to really fix it though.
In Jon’s dreams, his mother was beautiful and highborn with kind eyes. Premonition? Lyanna Stark? Ashara Dayne? Or just wishful thinking?
Alliser becomes Jon’s enemy for one joke. Alliser Thorne is as sensitive as a memetic girl on period.

Timeline references:
Alliser is 50.
Grenn is 16.
Jon is 15 now.


20. EDDARD
Characters: Eddard, Pycelle, Vayon, Varys, Renly, Petyr, Rodrik, Catelyn,

Facts:
Ned likes Varys the least in the small council. A grievous misjudgement on his end and also a wonder if this is purely for what Varys does or previous dealings.
Varys wears powder and smells in his Varys persona. Could even this be a fake? What does he really look like?
Ned detests duelling with words. However, Ned doesn’t seem all that incompetent at it become some of his burns in this chapter are downright amazing. It is just his honour and straightforward nature at conflict with it. Shame.
The Crown is six million in debt. Lannisters over 3 millions. Rest to Tyrells, the Iron Band, and Tyrosh trading cartels as well as the Faith.
Littlefinger comments that Robert is good at closing eyes to things he’d rather not see. Yup, a coward and also, probably the reason he never truly saw how bad Cersei was though the indications were there.
It would not be first time Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised. Who? Varys? Connington? Who was it? The possibilities are there and not there. Was it about Jon? It can’t be Howland because Ned does not despise him. Whom does that really leave us with? Was it really connected to Jon? Ned would find this dishonourable and he thinks he only dishonoured himself once.
Littlefinger claims he has Varys “by the balls”. Empty boosting or Varys wanting him to believe so?
Ned outright thinks he doesn’t trust Littlefinger one bit even after the conversation in the brothel. Catelyn shows her own ineptitude there when she starts trusting Petyr without anything concrete but his words to go by.
Ned’s war preparations include: 200 archers at Moat Cailin, strengthened and repaired White Harbour, careful watch over Theon Greyjoy. The latter part would imply Ned isn’t that incompetent when it comes to understanding human nature. He just isn’t competent in going against his honour. This can be connected and contrasted with Sansa who also understands others and is rather perceptive, but unlike Ned, she notices and then willingly blinds herself for the pretty picture while Ned acts on what he sees even though the actions aren’t always the best because the world is at odds with his personal honour. Ned is very good at knowing what is the best honourable and dishonourable course of action. He just isn’t good at acting out on the best course of action if it is dishonourable.
Ned notices that Robert had changed a lot, but he still hopes and operates under assumption that his hope is correct. Grievous error for Robert had already shown himself for what he is in the Arya/Butcher’sboy/Joffrey kerfuffle.

Timeline references:
Renly was 8 when Robert won the throne.
Brandon died 14 years prior to this chapter.
 
Chapters 10-20.
Daenerys:
-Dothraki’s culture dictates all things of importance in a man’s life must be done beneath the open sky.
-Dany’s dream seems to foretell the arrival of her dragons or, at least, the desire for her brother to stop mistreating her physically.
-Viserys' arrogance leads him to the point of anger when he's not given enough attention or higher privileges.
-Dothraki's concept of "sin" and "shame" are different from Westerosi/Free Cities' culture.
-Dany's dragon eggs come from the "Shadow Lands of beyond Asshai.

Eddard:
-Robert Baratheon's patience is pretty low.
-As always, Ned is the dutiful person between both, Robert notes he had always been too mature.
-Robert believes Wylla is Jon's mother. Once more, Ned vehemently refuses to speak about her.
-Jorah "dishonoured" the North by selling poachers to a Tyroshi slaver, forcing to escape before Ned caught him.
-Robert justifies his hatred for all Targaryen by calling it "war" and calling Rhaegar's children "dragonspawns". Don't be angry Lyanna preferred some "dragonspawn" over you, dude. Robert believes as well Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna and raped her countless of times.
-The Westerlands remained on neutral ground during the course of the "War of the Usurper" until the very end.
-Rober knows how hollow his "victory" against Rhaegar was, as it didn't give him back Lyanna.

Tyrion:
-Snow falling during the departure of Winterfell. Foreshadowing of the cold Winter Starks will face?
-Dragonbone is black due its high iron content.
-Tyrion points out Jon's physical features are of a Stark's, only missing the name. Maybe it's the mother who left it all in her son, after all.
-Tyrion has an obsession with fire. Possible hint of Targaryen heritage, for those fans of said theory.

Catelyn:
-She tries to encourage Ned after pushing to accept Robert's offer and go South with him. After the Brandon incident, she blames Ned for not "seeing what's happening" and leaving her behind. Poor judgement clouded by a mother's grief.
-Now I suppose Catelyn is happy about those Direwolves.
-The assassin had a dagger made of Valyrian Steel.
-Going to King's Landing by yourself? Oh, Catelyn, if only your ideas were as sharp as your husband's sword.

Sansa:
-I do believe there's no need to point out Sansa's poor taste in men by this point of the story.
-Sansa usually expects her sister to be perfect and lady-like as she is and not break the perfect image Sansa has about their meetings with the royal family. Apparently, she cannot understand either children (Arya) do act childish most of time, going as far as desiring for her to be a *******.
-Sansa notes Arya's particularity about making friends with everyone she meets.
-I don't find it highly surprising, but very disappointing, that Sansa somehow forgave Joffrey for his despicable actions and the contempt expression he had on his face as he snapped at her, revealing his true nature.

Eddard:
-Sansa's affection towards Joffrey is so strong at this point she is willing to let go the obvious incident he caused in the first place.
-Despite Cersei is not the master of manipulation and subtlety, she does manipulate Robert in this scene by wounding his pride.

Bran:
-The voice inside Bran's dreams urges him to "fly", which is referencing to the latter's latent warging abilities.
-It's pretty likely the crow is just Bloodraven trying to reach Bran through dreams. Which prompts the question, did Bloodraven knew about Bran's talent beforehand?
-Bran is somehow able to watch the inhabitants of Winterfell, possibly even what they're doing for the moment (a hint of that being the bloodstained knife in front of Catelyn or Ned discussing with the King about the events that happened in the Trident.)

Catelyn:
-Petyr challenged Brandon Stark when it was announced he would marry Catelyn, only to lose and scarred. To which extent this would push Petyr in his quest for wealth, power, influence or desire of vengeance against powerful Houses is unknown.
-King's Landing (or at least the north shore) had been once forests scarcely populated with a few fisherfolk until Aegon and his sisters arrived from Dragonstone.
-"Nothing happens in this city without Varys knowing", well that one bit is true.
-That's a grave mistake, Catelyn. Trusting Littlefinger even a little is something one should not do.

Jon:
-Jon reminds us once more how much he misses and how Arya is his most beloved family member. Some might say those feelings can develop into romantic ones.
-He feels affection towards his lacking motherly figure despite he's never met or heard of her.
-Donal Noye was once Stannis Baratheon's blacksmith and rumoured to be the one that made Robert's warhammer.
-The Wall's top seems to be wide enough for a dozen armoured knights to rid abreast.
-"He could feel the great weight of all that ice pressing down on him, as if it were about to topple, and somehow Jon knew that if it fell, the world fell with it." Well, it'd definitely be a bad thing if it happened.

Eddard:
-Renly was only eight when Robert was crowned.
-Once more we're told how unsuited Ned for the southron courts, which makes his decision (and Catelyn's constant nagging about it) not a very wise one. Specially around people like Varys or Littlefinger.
-Robert's administrative skills and sense of self-control are pretty close to non-existant, burrying the crown in a six million debt.
-Littlefinger washing his own hands for Robert's idiocy.
-Catelyn once more with her poor judgement. Littlefinger is advising you to not trust anyone, yet, you do so by trusting him in return, specially one that raised to such position by tricking others.
-"It would not be the first time that Ned had been forced to make common cause with a man he despised." Makes you wonder who is the first one.
 
I wonder what you'll say about teh chapter in which catelyn goes to talk to Old walder Frey. I always felt the deal she made was a bad one. Like the Starks needed to give up too much for the alliance, when her own lord father is in fact his liege lord... . I can see Arya having to marry, or Robb having the marry, but both and then some...
 
Koopa said:
I wonder what you'll say about teh chapter in which catelyn goes to talk to Old walder Frey. I always felt the deal she made was a bad one. Like the Starks needed to give up too much for the alliance, when her own lord father is in fact his liege lord... . I can see Arya having to marry, or Robb having the marry, but both and then some...
Click to expand...
Give me a few months and you'll find out. XD Likely nothing positive. XD
 
After a short hiatus because my exam had struck, Notes 5.
21. TYRION
Characters: Tyrion, Jeor Mormont, Alliser Thorne, Bowen Marsh, Jeremy Rykker, Maester Aemon, Jon Snow,

Facts:
Jeor Mormont notes that the Night Watch used to make the wall higher during summers.
Jeor Mormont dreamt of danger to come. Just old man’s fears coming to life or something more? Bran got plenty of warnings in his dreams.
Fisherfolk at Eastwatch saw a glance of White Walkers.
Jon sends a message to each of his brothers: A teasing one for Robb, a consolatory one for Rickon, and asks help for Bran. It really shows the dynamics between him and his half-brothers where his interactions with each have a distinct flavour to them.
Jon and Tyrion name each other friends and then Jon walks towards the edge of the wall an Tyrion notes there is only darkness before him, but comes to stand next to Jon at the edge of the world. I already noted that I very much enjoy the dynamics between the two, but I am really hoping this is some sort of foreshadowing as to how they will stand together in the final battle.

Timeline references:
Jeor Mormont is 68.
Tyrion so far saw 8/9 winters.
Tyrion was born midway a winter that lasted 3 years.
Current summer lasted 9 years.

Recurring Theme:
Maester Aemon about Tyrion: “Oh, I think that Lord Tyrion is quite a large man. I think he is a giant come among us, here at the end of the world.”


22. ARYA
Characters: Arya, Eddard, Jory, Sansa, Jayne, Septa Mordane, Hullen, Desmond, Jacks, Harwin, Porther, Alyn, Fat Tom, Vayon, Syrio,

Facts:
Ned only brought 50 men with him while Small Hall could house about 200. It is another indication of how ill prepared he was for his position in the South.
Arya’s descriptions of her father as the lord. Despite the previous notes that indicate that Eddard never wanted the responsibility he has, Ned is a very good and surprisingly wise lord. His reasoning pertaining to his lordly duties is rather sane. While some of that seemingly comes from tradition, I do wonder how much of it was his own doing.
Arya enjoyed Winterfell immensely while the South is foul to her. She even notes coming to South had poisoned her opinion of people she knew at Winterfell since they watched the cruelty Cersei did to Lady and Hound did to Mycah and did nothing. It can really be contrasted with Sansa again. Sansa blinds herself so she doesn’t have to think much about it and only blames her father and Arya while Arya thinks a lot about it and works to not only resent the wrongdoers now matter who they are, but those who observed it. There is a certain amount of naivete in her reasoning, but she is still not unkind to them while Sansa is unkind towards people who bear the least amount of fault because being mad at the ones who bear the most fault doesn’t fit into her world as well. It is also likely a consequence of her own inability to do anything and underlying guilt that she feels the need to project in an attempt to cope.
Septa Mordane sees nothing of Arya’s underlying pain and does nothing to curb Sansa. Whoever picked her to raise anyone’s children (and my money is on Catelyn), couldn’t have done a lousier job. She is out of touch with reality and only obsesses over what is proper. She doesn’t think about what is right and hardly shows any sympathy towards Arya. Sansa is all that is proper so she is a favourite despite her actions at times being far from what is good while Arya isn’t a proper lady so she is heavily neglected at best, completely mistreated at worse.
Arya notes that she likes the doors of her room in KL best because they are such an obstacle. It is worthy to note that Arya isn’t just angry and hurt. She is scared and it reinforces why she needed Syrio so much in her life. It is also very telling that nobody notices it. She is also filled with guilt and it reflects on her behaviour. Yet, people to note it are the people of the household who seem to like her while people in charge of her (read Septa Mordane) doesn’t even notice and one wonders if she cares with how obsessed with proper she is.
“You will rue this insolent behaviour.” That is the only thing Septa Mordane tells Arya after Arya runs to her chamber. I used to give her some credit about just being there to do her duty, but this is sickening me right now. She doesn’t even attempt to inquire if something is wrong and we know that Arya is on the verge of tears. It is impossible that it isn’t evident in her voice.
Arya wishes Jon was there with her or that she was back in Winterfell. She associates the two with feelings of safety and comfort as well as not being so lonely. She seems to be the type of Stark that the South melts. She just isn’t fit to deal with the South at the moment.
Ned speaks to Arya about his siblings, especially Lyanna. It seems to be that his motivations for making Arya into a lady come from the fact that he sees wolf’s blood in her and fears she would end up like his siblings. It could also be while he decided to let Syrio teach her. She was obviously not cut of the same cloth as Sansa so he might think that is a way for her to calm down and have a way to protect herself unlike Lyanna.
Arya puts her feelings aside in order to reassure her father. She is highly perceptive here, noting minute changes in Ned’s mood and state of mind. I should also note that Ned is wonderful in dealing with Arya. He tells her exactly what she needs to hear in order to lift her spirits and make her grow as a person.

Timeline references:
Syrio has been the first sword of Braavos for 9 years.


23. DAENERYS
Characters: Daenerys, Jorah, Irri, Viserys, Jhiqui, Jhogo, Quaro, Doreah, Drogo,

Facts:
Viserys tells to Illyrio as Illyrio urges him to stay in Pentos: “And if he tries to cheat me, he will learn to his sorrow what it means to wake the dragon.” Illyrio blinks and wishes him luck. Another element in favour of the theory that Illyrio just wanted to be rid of Viserys.
Dany had decided to kill herself. She decides against it as she dreams of a black dragon that night. The dragon in a way, burns away her weaknesses including her fear of Viserys. It also liberated her to see things as they are, including seeing Viserys for the pathetic thing he is instead of something to be feared.
The conversation between Dany and Jorah about Viserys. I really liked the early interactions between Dany and Jorah because he helps her bridge the gap between what Viserys’ tells her and how things really are. He helps her to accept the conclusions she herself had come at.
Quarth legend is that dragons come from moon who cracked, while Dorthraki consider moon a god.

Timeline references:
Irii and Jhiqui are off age with Dany. Doreah is almost 20.
Dany turns 14 on the day Jhiqui notes that Dany is pregnant.


24. BRAN
Characters: Bran, Rickon, Old Nan, Luwin, Hodor, Robb, Theon, Hallis, Tyrion, Yoren,

Old Nan’s Legends:
Nan says that her stories aren’t hears. They are before and after her. Does it hold any implications in regards to possible truthfulness of some of the things she says?
“Oh, my sweet summer child, what do you know of fear? Fear is for the winter, my little lord, when the snows fall a hundred feet deep and the ice wind comes howling out of the north. Fear is for the long night, when the sun hides its face for years at a time, and little children are born and live and die all in darkness while the direwolves grow gaunt and hungry, and the white walkers move through the woods.”
“The Others. Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks.”
“In that darkness, the Others came for the first time. They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They swept over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children.”
“Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest. Yet here and there in the fastness of the woods the children still lived in their wooden cities and hollow hills, and the faces in the trees kept watch. So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds—”
 I’m putting this one here in entity because I’ll be referencing it later often. Old Nan, for who she is, seems rather knowledgeable about the historical events of 7K.

Facts:
Hodor’s real name is Walder and nobody knows that Hodor is supposed to be.
In his dream and after he wakes up, Bran desperately repeats he didn’t hear. Further implication of Bran’s memory hole being psychologically imposed, a defence mechanism.
When men mention Benjen, Bran is certain that children will help him because the tale reminds Bran of the tale Old Nan told him about the last hero. Yoren is the only one not to dismiss it.

Timeline references:
Bran had turned 8.


25. EDDARD
Characters: Eddard, Pycelle, Arya, Alyn, Middlefinger,

Facts:
Pycelle claims Lord Varys was born as a slave in Lys.
Pycelle warns Ned not to trust Varys while Ned thinks Vayrs makes his flesh crawl. Really interesting that everyone is so keen on getting rid of Varys and making everyone distrust Varys. Makes one wonder how much of a personal stake there might be there.
 
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