12 Monkeys: 1.06: The Red Forest

Cole jumps back and into an alternate reality:

A lot happens in this episode so I don't want to give anything away. We meet some new people and they might have gained another ally:

Cli-Fi said:

Jones is basically a slave, but I'm not really too sure why since they said the machine is low on power. What use to the West 7 is she then?

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I took it as West VII had been using the machine's core as a power source for...whatever they need to power. Pre-plague iPods, maybe?

As for Jones, Ramse is a different man to Deacon - we've already seen in flashbacks in previous episodes that Deacon would rather kill other survivors, whilst Ramse would let them live, so it would make sense that Ramse would let Jones live. Not sure what happened to Deacon, though. Killed in the assault on the complex? Died shortly after?

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I'm still enjoying 12 Monkeys, but for a series centred around time travel, it doesn't seem to have decided upon it's brand of time travel - until this episode, everything we've seen suggests a fixed timeline (as it is in the film), with all of Cole's actions already having taken place and become history, so nothing is changed. Yet the characters believe, and this episode suggests, that they're living in a Back to the Future-styley dynamic timeline, with the time traveller's actions altering the timeline and changing the future (Cassie is captured, presumedly killed, and everything changes).

As such, I found the sudden change in this episode a bit jarring. I hope the writers have a good explanation for eating both cakes, because to me it feels like they're throwing in whatever suits their narrative.

Lenny said:

I took it as West VII had been using the machine's core as a power source for...whatever they need to power. Pre-plague iPods, maybe?

As for Jones, Ramse is a different man to Deacon - we've already seen in flashbacks in previous episodes that Deacon would rather kill other survivors, whilst Ramse would let them live, so it would make sense that Ramse would let Jones live. Not sure what happened to Deacon, though. Killed in the assault on the complex? Died shortly after?

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I'm still enjoying 12 Monkeys, but for a series centred around time travel, it doesn't seem to have decided upon it's brand of time travel - until this episode, everything we've seen suggests a fixed timeline (as it is in the film), with all of Cole's actions already having taken place and become history, so nothing is changed. Yet the characters believe, and this episode suggests, that they're living in a Back to the Future-styley dynamic timeline, with the time traveller's actions altering the timeline and changing the future (Cassie is captured, presumedly killed, and everything changes).

As such, I found the sudden change in this episode a bit jarring. I hope the writers have a good explanation for eating both cakes, because to me it feels like they're throwing in whatever suits their narrative.

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I liked your description of back to the future time travel. It's almost as good as Dr Who's wibbily wobbly timey wimey. Almost .

Anyway March 6 Episode is named: Yesterday and the next one after that is named tomorrow. So you'll be seeing more weird time travel stuff in the future: Cheers!

I agree with both of your time travel analyses - BTTF and Dr. Who - The Twelve Monkeys film could have, within it, a genuine looped story, but I guess a TV series cannot. Even so, I'd like them to keep some consistency. As I said after an earlier episode, I expect them to have a weak Dr. Who style "fixed points in time" explanation - one in which small "butterfly effect" changes have no effect, but in which certain set points or milestones will change everything. As you correctly observed, it is merely:

Lenny said:

...eating both cakes, because to me it feels like they're throwing in whatever suits their narrative.

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I also agree with the analysis of adding more characters. It should enable political conspiracies and international terrorists, or just "cool things."

Lenny said:

I took it as West VII had been using the machine's core as a power source for...whatever they need to power. Pre-plague iPods, maybe?

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Heating and lighting I would expect, though it was said that they would die without the power source. Electric heating and lighting are certainly comfortable, but lack of them is not life-threatening. Was that an exaggeration, or a speculation? I-pods are not vital, but a defence system against animals might be.

I think the West VII and associates are immune to the virus. Is that just a coincidence or a result of an event we have yet to have seen. There is much to learn yet, including "Operation Troy."

The other spoilered point (do we need to keep it spoilered?) I'm not sure about that anyway:- Cole had been around before that splintering point so it is not the first time that Jennifer saw him, in any reality. Jones, in both realities, had experimented with sending other people back and it hadn't worked until Cole. If your theory is correct I would have expected her to wait for Cole to turn up, because he was obviously the only one for which it worked. Jones also mentioned her German name a few episodes back. Jones is her married name but her maiden name is also known to us.

Dave said:

Heating and lighting I would expect, though it was said that they would die without the power source. Electric heating and lighting are certainly comfortable, but lack of them is not life-threatening. Was that an exaggeration, or a speculation? I-pods are not vital, but a defence system against animals might be.

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Do we know where the complex is located? I'm sure there are plenty of places in the US where temperatures would plummet at night - if the complex is in or around one of them, and the weather's not great, it's not too big a stretch to imagine people getting hypothermia. Throw in the probability of poor diet and hygiene, and a likely decreased immune system, and suddenly being unable to get, and stay, warm becomes very dangerous.

One should not discount the usefulness of a pre-plague iPod in staying fit and warm - after all, you can't workout, and get the blood pumping, if you're missing the right soundtrack!

Okay true, just one point though - Cole has some kind of super-immune system and genetics. It was mentioned in an early episode. I speculated that he is a super-soldier. It is possible that all of West VII are also.

Lenny said:

Do we know where the complex is located?

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They keep showing a ruined building. It is several stories high but unusual shaped sides. Someone must know the present day building that it is meant to be. Also, do any US cities get divided into regions North, East, South & West? I have no idea how Zip codes work. Only that there is an area of London that has a postcode W7.

A quite detailed review of this episode here that mentions things I hadn't thought of:
(as always, beware spoilers)
http://www.spoilertv.com/2015/02/12-monkeys-red-forest-review.html?link_time=1424973885

Dave said:

I also agree with the analysis of adding more characters. It should enable political conspiracies and international terrorists, or just "cool things."

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Yeah that's what I'd really have in mind.

Dave said:

The other spoilered point (do we need to keep it spoilered?) I'm not sure about that anyway:- Cole had been around before that splintering point so it is not the first time that Jennifer saw him, in any reality. Jones, in both realities, had experimented with sending other people back and it hadn't worked until Cole. If your theory is correct I would have expected her to wait for Cole to turn up, because he was obviously the only one for which it worked. Jones also mentioned her German name a few episodes back. Jones is her married name but her maiden name is also known to us.

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I'm not saying Cole affected her. I'm saying, seeing him disappear like that did. She didn't see that before! Scientists don't just sit around and wait for things to happen. If Jennifer is Jones, then she could have started work on the experiment right after he splintered. We already know she was pretty smart before her psychotic break. Maybe she works to get herself better, and always remembering, "his otter eyes," she is prepared for whenever she recruits/finds him for the project.