Publishers and Self-Publishing

[Anne Lyle]

Now then - the other thing: What are YOUR precise benefits going to be? A lot of us are actually going to be far better off into the future of publishing if we avoid the traditionalist large publishing houses. You get paid more, faster, and easier per book sold through PoD's now than you used to get paid through the big boys.

(my bold) - and therein lies the rub. Most self-published books just don't sell in the numbers required to equal even a modest advance from a commercial publisher - and if they do, it's probably because the writer has invested as much time in marketing their book as they did in writing it.

I'm not knocking self-publishing - some people thrive on the independence and entrepreneurial spirit - but far too many writers only look at the 70% royalty levels on Amazon and don't calculate the real ROI of a self-published title. By the time you've factored in paying for editing (which you seriously should be doing) and cover art, plus hours spent on marketing, you're very lucky to break even, never mind turn a profit.

 

[Mark Robson]

Nice to be mentioned in this thread in such positive tones. I would also not knock self-publishing, but my stance tends to be as follows:

Self publishing can be a way of getting noticed if you are either incredibly hard working, or very, very lucky - preferably both! It's a great way of getting your work into print if you have exhausted all other options, but it should not be a first port of call if you are serious about your writing.

For those who are set on the idea, though, and are undeterred by the obstacles that will be thrown in your way, I've produced a set of notes that you might find useful. You'll find them on the web here: So you want to Self Publish... - Writing.Com

I'd happily put them here on Chronicles somewhere suitable as a resource if you wish, but as you will see, they are rather lengthy.

 

[rdenning]

I agree Mark. Like many people I tried the traditional route.
When the rejections pour in, you have to ask yourself - do I suck? Have I edited this well enough - possibly including a professional edit.
I had been getting some "good" rejections - 3 page letters analysing the book, making comments even offering to look at more stuff but just not breaking through.
So I thought stuff it. I don't mind the work.
I don't mind the grind (and it is, as Mark says, VERY hard) and am getting some sales slowly and in dribs and drabs. So I feel for me right now it is a reasonable thing to be doing.

But it does require effort. I haul round books fairs and literary events - I do the whole blogging and facebook thing, I try to have some area of knowledge to discuss so I am not directly promoting the books and sometimes - like at fairs the last 2 weekend you see a good number of sales.

Is it worth it - I would say YES - For me at this stage. How long will I push on with it for? Who knows. been at it a year now and had 250 sales. That shows that nothing stunning happens fast. Nor have I had much income at it.
BUt when you get a good review or get someone feedback in a positive way you think maybe I don't completely suck and it gives you a little more incentive

But of course if I got an offer from a Publisher I would be excited and interested.

 

[Simon tall]

Self publishing can be a good introduction - try smashwords website to publish ebooks on all formats. This allows you to market yourself and have control and even publish and re-publish works that have been edited so that you can respond to readers and hone your skills.

 

[Ian Whates]

There's an interesting article with a lot to say on self-publishing here:
http://blogcritics.org/books/article/self-publishing-70-of-nothing-is/

 

[Luc Valentine]

Not making money with self-published books? Paranormal writer Amanda Hocking would beg to differ:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-02-09-ebooks09_ST_N.htm

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

A handful of writers who make a fortune self-publishing doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of self-published writers don't make a single penny in profit (and some end up losing money), while those who go the traditional route at least have the advance.

The more people who choose to do self-publishing, the more business there is for people like me, but facts are facts.

 

[Anne Lyle]

Not making money with self-published books? Paranormal writer Amanda Hocking would beg to differ:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-02-09-ebooks09_ST_N.htm

She also accepted a deal with a Big Six publisher recently, so that they could do the promotional work that was getting in the way of her writing more books.

But being a savvy person, she turned down a better offer from Amazon rather than restrict her distribution to the Kindle. There's still a lot of life left in conventional publishing...

 

[Brian G Turner]

Not making money with self-published books? Paranormal writer Amanda Hocking would beg to differ:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2011-02-09-ebooks09_ST_N.htm

Every lottery has its big winners, and majority of losers.

Even traditional publishing is no guarantee of literary success, but at least you get a million-dollar multinational daring to invest in you, at least until you rise or fall.

 

[Anne Lyle]

But being a savvy person, she turned down a better offer from Amazon rather than restrict her distribution to the Kindle. There's still a lot of life left in conventional publishing...

Just wanted to point out that I didn't link to a certain online retailer on purpose in my post - it seems SFF Chronicles now has auto-linking "ads"

 

[The Judge]

Yes, skim-links were added a little while ago, so they're all over the place (though oddly it isn't showing up for me in your post or the quote).

 

[RJM Corbet]

I haven't seen a skimlink for a while. But Brian said a couple of weeks ago that he was trying them, although they would just bring in 'pennies'. Chrons earns from skimlinks for every hit. I just hit the link when it comes up. It all helps?

 

[indiewordsmith]

A question for publishers: If an author attempts to self-publish, only to decide to switch to a publishing house later, does a publisher become biased against that manuscript? And if so what are the professional/marketing aspects of this bias?

As what others have raised, I think your self-publishing records would not be an interference should you decide to switch to a publishing house later on. Instead it might boost your manuscript's credentials in terms of marketability or you as an author through the track record of your previous self-published manuscripts.

 

[Peter Graham]

I would argue that anyone who is seriously considering self publishing as a means of becoming a professional writer might wish to engage in a bit of honest self examination.

As Mark, Teresa and others have said, it's very hard work unless you are happy with a small cupful of sales. It's also very difficult work - self promotion is a skill which does not come easily to many. You'd either have to be phenomenally lucky or one of that rare breed who can wheedle a duck off a tarn to really break through. Not only that, you'd need to have written a really good book.

My suspicion is that whilst many aspiring writers recite the "I know it's hard work but it's worth it" mantra, many think that for them it will be different. They are so pleased with their work that they privately believe that theirs will be the one which suddenly goes viral and brings them all manner of riches. Not that anyone will admit it, of course.

Is it possible that your work was rejected by conventional publishers or agents because it just wasn't good enough? Or all they all really just useless chumps who wouldn't know quality or true innovation if it woke them up at 6 a.m. in a silk negligee?

If your work isn't good enough, then what chance do you have of getting significant numbers of folk to buy it?

If your work is good enough and you were just unlucky with the agents et al, how are you going to market the book? Stick it up on some online equivalent of the Augean Stables where it will be lost in the ever growing piles of competition? Stick up a blog or a website? In the sort of business where recommendation and reputation are everything?

Or do you turn yourself into a tireless travelling salesman, footslogging around to promote your book at every opportunity. Mark will know better, but I'd wager that even if you are good at it - like he clearly is - it's a significant commitment of time and expense. I know that I for one couldn't face that, even if I had the time.

OK - we can all name one or two people who have made the SP route work. By the same token, we can all point at people who won £10 million on the rollover. But that doesn't take away from the fact that your chances of having the winning ticket remains approximately 14,000,000:1.

Regards,

Peter

 

[AnyaKimlin]

Thing is even the traditionally published authors I know need to do all of that to sell more than a couple of hundred copies and receive something reasonable financially in return. Many do the school visits, library visits, bookshop visits, websites, twitter, forums, facebook etc

It is very possible to only sell one hundred copies with a traditional publisher. It is a lottery about whether or not you are successful as an author whichever route you go down. Publicity has to happen with both etc

The lottery analogy works with both self publishing and traditional publishing -- the latter starting with being the one out of thousands the agent accepts.

 

[Peter Graham]

It is very possible to only sell one hundred copies with a traditional publisher.

Whether its very possible, I don't know, but I'd guess that if you had a traditional deal and only sold 100, you'd have reason to be a bit cheesed off. By contrast, 100 would probably represent a fairly good return for most self published authors.

By way of another analogy, if you buy a secondhand car from a main dealer, chances are that it's going to be a pretty good car. If you buy something out of the back of the trade press, you'd better know a bit about kicking tyres, inspecting big ends and stirring petrol, or else you're setting yourself up for a fall.

The lottery analogy works with both self publishing and traditional publishing -- the latter starting with being the one out of thousands the agent accepts.

Only to a degree. If you can get picked up by a publisher, it is far more likely than not that the final version of the book will be significantly better than if you'd self published. What's more, the very fact that you got picked up in the first place means that your book is much more likely than not to be at the better end of the scale in any event. And as a general rule, good product sells better than bad product.

You will also have the advantage of marketing and distribution departments and enormous amounts of industry know-how. And as a general rule, people who know how to sell something sell more of it than people who don't.

OK - you have to do your bit by turning out to press the flesh of ghastly articles who normally you'd go to great lengths to avoid, but at least you aren't spending seven hours a day sat on the number 73 bus to Stoke with a rucksack full of unsold books and holes in your shoes.

Regards,

Peter

 

[Interference]

If you can get picked up by a publisher, it is far more likely than not that the final version of the book will be significantly better than if you'd self published. What's more, the very fact that you got picked up in the first place means that your book is much more likely than not to be at the better end of the scale in any event. And as a general rule, good product sells better than bad product.

Agreed, and just to throw a different perspective into the mix:

When you record a song and are happy with it, you want to share it with everyone you know who likes your songs. It's only when someone you aren't sure of listens to it, possibly in your presence, that you hear its flaws properly and the song begins to sound awful. This, you take into account when you record another song.

When a publisher picks up your work, it's likely that s/he does so in spite of the "flaws". Consequently, s/he is willing and eager to invest his/er (this is getting/has got silly ) time in making it publication-ready. Perhaps this is also the time the publisher will be making decisions on how quickly you will learn and how much work he will have to do on your next book, so your deal with them will be for a few books, initially.

When self-publishing, every sale is an endorsement of your flaws and you are less likely to learn from them, but equally it's unlikely that more than your admirers will stick with you to the second book, so sales may actually slump. After all, if you're still self publishing then clearly the publishers you sent your opus to weren't sufficiently impressed.

And finally, when a publisher picks up an author, they are already thinking of the cost of publicising your genius with posters, chat shows, movie premier attendances and award ceremonies. The act of meeting you is a percentage of that cost which will only be met after many other cheques have been written. If it looks like you're going to be hard to teach as well, then you might just find yourself with an interesting note in your diary for that day and nothing more.

As usual, Peter explains things much more lucidly than I tend to, but some of the more informative aspects of what I've said above may hopefully hit home for some people.

 

[AnyaKimlin]

I haven't decided what I am doing yet - at 90K my fantasy is a tad too long for a debut YA story, so it may struggle to be picked up. I've had a reviewer from a sci-fi/fantasy website read it and I have a quote for my covering letter which will help, and I also have one from another author. I've more or less decided if I don't get an agent I really want -- then I'll self-publish.


However having spoken to authors who have done both routes there isn't a huge amount to choose between them. Neither route is really a lottery -- you get out of them what you put into it.

It depends how you self publish. It is possible to get it edited and pay someone for cover art or get permission to use something. Plus every so often you get a traditionally published book where there is a strong incling it has had its ending heavily edited by the publishers. These days for me self published is something that stops me enough to check out the first few pages -- I have several innovative self published works on my shelves.

Successful authors still do the publicity rounds - Iain Banks is coming to the local book festival here, Margaret Atwood was up last year and Joan Lingard. Authors do very well from library visits here. (also if you have a name you can get paid nicely for doing it)

It depends who traditionally publishes you how much support you will have and even larger publishing houses are starting to look for what you are willing to do yourself. An ability to publicise and market yourself is a bonus.

 

[Interference]

Some folk have had progressive successes with short stories and it was suggested to me, many years ago, that I ought to think about breaking some scenes out of my unpublished novels and try to spread them around as shorts. I'm too undisciplined to have acted on that advice as yet, but it sounds quite sound to me.

Plus, I know I have no end of imagination for different stories down the line, so I don't consider it "wasting material" What I don't have is youthful vigour and enthusiasm, which hopefully you will have if you decide to consider this possibility.

And I believe the Publicity Trail is a necessary evil these days. It's what keeps Jonathan Ross' couch warm, after all.

 

[Anne Lyle]

And finally, when a publisher picks up an author, they are already thinking of the cost of publicising your genius with posters, chat shows, movie premier attendances and award ceremonies. The act of meeting you is a percentage of that cost which will only be met after many other cheques have been written. If it looks like you're going to be hard to teach as well, then you might just find yourself with an interesting note in your diary for that day and nothing more.

Chat shows? Movie premiers? Do you know anything about the SFF genre?

Most debut SFF authors have zero publicity budget. We pay for our own convention memberships and hotel bills (written off against tax, of course), we arrange our own panel appearances, launch parties, blurbs from famous authors, etc, etc. Unless you have a movie deal or a bestseller so huge even the mainstream media can't ignore it, your chance of appearing on a chat show is zero.

The dividing line between self-published authors and commercially published authors is mainly:

1. Money paid up front (the former pay for services prior to publication, the latter get paid by the publisher and then the cost of services is deducted from sales)

2. Distribution (the latter get into high street bookshops, the former - not so much)

3. Reviews (still much easier to get reviews if you're traditionally published)

When it comes to self-promotion, we're pretty much all in the same boat, TBH.